Mystery of the Magnetic Field: "Because

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the understanding of the direction of the magnetic field generated by a current-carrying wire, exploring the reasoning behind the right-hand rule and its definitions. Participants delve into the conventions used in electromagnetism and the historical context of these definitions.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant explains that the right-hand rule involves pointing the thumb in the direction of current flow, with fingers curling in the direction of the magnetic field lines, attributing this to convention.
  • Another participant agrees that the direction is defined by convention, suggesting it could have been a left-hand rule instead.
  • A later post mentions the Biot-Savart law as the origin of the definition, explaining the relationship between the current element and the magnetic field direction through vector cross products.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the equation related to the Biot-Savart law but finds a visual aid helpful in understanding.
  • Another participant offers a rough approximation of the magnetic field as an electric field present when an electric charge is moving, indicating a more complex interaction than simple definitions suggest.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the use of the right-hand rule and the role of convention in defining the magnetic field direction. However, there are varying levels of understanding and interpretation regarding the underlying physics and historical context, indicating that the discussion remains somewhat unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the mathematical aspects of the Biot-Savart law and its implications, highlighting a need for further clarification on the definitions and concepts involved.

DarkAnt
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A few days ago my physics teacher told me that to find the magnetic field's direction in a wire you put up your right hand and whichever way your fingures bent was the magnetic field's direction, or at least that is what I understood. When I questioned him why this was the case he told me "because" and left it at that. Could someone tell me why this is the case?
 
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I believe that you need to point you thumb in the direction of current flow. Your fingers then curl in the direction of the magnetic field lines. This is simply due to convention. We have defined the what positive current flow is, we have defined what the direction of the magnetic field is. This could just as well been a left hand rule. Perhaps the answer you are looking for then is "by definition"
 
yes, by definition
 
Isn't there one for EM waves with your thumb and two fingers; One for the direction of the wave and the other two for the electronic and magnetic disturbances? Wonder how you would combine the two...

What a nice teacher you have BTW :rolleyes:
 
If you're looking for the origin of this definition, it comes from the experimental work of Biot and Savart, of Biot-Savart law fame. The law is:

[tex] <br /> d\vec{B} = \frac{\mu_0}{4\pi} \frac{I d\vec{l} \times \hat{r}}{r^2}<br /> [/tex]

yeah it's ugly, but what it tells you is that due to the properties of the vector cross product evident in:

[tex] <br /> I d\vec{l} \times \hat{r}<br /> [/tex]

The magnetic field vector B, takes off in a direction perpendicular to both the current element dl, which points in the direction the current moves, and the r vector which points at the field point you are calculating the magnetic field at. I've attatched a picture which will hopefully help you visualize this.
 

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  • schematic16.JPG
    schematic16.JPG
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I kinda get it now. That whole equation is well...just plain scary. The picture helped a lot. Thanks
 
If I got you right you wan'na know what the magnetic
field is. The magnetic field is basically an electrical field
which is present when an electrical charge is moving
(relative to the device you measure the field with).
For example, if current flows in a wire en electrical
charge moving parallel to it will "see" more charges
with one sign and less of the other(that's a rough
approximation of course, and current in a wire
doesn't just flow that way). There may be more
on this on hyperphysics.

Live long and prosper.
 

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