Prove this wrong with the laws of thermodynamics

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of extracting useful work from the thermal energy of the ocean, framed within the context of the laws of thermodynamics. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of utilizing ocean thermal energy, including efficiency concerns and technological limitations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that it is theoretically impossible to extract useful work from thermal energy in cooler substances due to the second law of thermodynamics, which states that energy cannot spontaneously flow from a cooler to a warmer body.
  • Others mention that while ocean thermal energy can be exploited through temperature differentials, the technology is currently inefficient and economically unfeasible due to high construction and maintenance costs.
  • One participant highlights that geothermal power plants successfully convert thermal energy into electricity, suggesting that thermal energy can be utilized under certain conditions.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of lowering ocean temperatures, which could potentially increase polar ice and affect ocean depth.
  • Participants express uncertainty regarding the general applicability of thermal energy extraction, with some arguing that while it is possible, the efficiency remains a significant barrier.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the feasibility of extracting useful work from ocean thermal energy, with some asserting it is impossible under current technological constraints, while others acknowledge potential but emphasize inefficiency and economic factors.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include unresolved questions about the efficiency of existing technologies and the specific conditions under which thermal energy can be effectively harnessed. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of thermodynamic principles and their application to ocean energy extraction.

DaffyZeeDucky
How to prove this wrong with the laws of thermodynamics?

Since our ocean has a huge amount of thermal energy ... Why is it not possible to put this thermal energy into useful work?
 
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Actualy it is possible

and people have tried to exploit ocean thermal energy, but it is very low grade so it requires large equipment and sea water is very corrosive which makes it not very feasible.
 


Originally posted by DaffyZeeDucky
How to prove this wrong with the laws of thermodynamics?

Since our ocean has a huge amount of thermal energy ... Why is it not possible to put this thermal energy into useful work?


all the thermodynamic books i have read tell me that this is immpossible. we have (and never expect to observe) the spontanious release of energy from an cool object to a warmer object. i believe i heard that someone did the calculations and it turned out that we will observe a single monkey on a single typewriter type the complete works of shakespear apox.100,000,000 times in succession (without error) before we ever observe the above mentioned effect. and even if we could, we wouldn't. lowering the temerature of the ocean would increase the amount of ice in the polars and lower the ocean depth.
 


Originally posted by maximus
all the thermodynamic books i have read tell me that this is immpossible. we have (and never expect to observe) the spontanious release of energy from an cool object to a warmer object. i believe i heard that someone did the calculations and it turned out that we will observe a single monkey on a single typewriter type the complete works of shakespear apox.100,000,000 times in succession (without error) before we ever observe the above mentioned effect. and even if we could, we wouldn't. lowering the temerature of the ocean would increase the amount of ice in the polars and lower the ocean depth.

Maximus, the ocean has many regions where relatively warm water overlays much colder water and people have actualy built plants that use this temperature difference. But they haven't proved economic because of construction and maintainence costs.
 
i do not doubt it, tyger. but does my statement not hold true?
 
Originally posted by maximus
i do not doubt it, tyger. but does my statement not hold true?

But that wasn't what he was asking. He was asking if it were possible to use the ocean's heat as an energy source. Tyger had the right answer. You can exploit it with temperature differentials but at this point the technology makes it inefficent.
 
Well how about just in general? Why is it not possible to make use of the thermal energy?
 
Originally posted by DaffyZeeDucky
Well how about just in general? Why is it not possible to make use of the thermal energy?

your question is so vague it is difficult to answer it all at once. yes, it is possible to use thermal energy. geothermal power plants have the sole purpose of converting the Earth's natural thermal energy into electricity. and as tyger said, so do ocean plants. your body makes use of thermal energy, as well as a cold blooded reptile. basically every engine uses thermal energy in some form. but my above post still holds true. we cannot take the energy from a cooler substance into a warmer substance. this violates the second law of thermodynamics.
 
Originally posted by DaffyZeeDucky
Well how about just in general? Why is it not possible to make use of the thermal energy?
If the question is still about the ocean, the answer is still the same - the efficiency would be so low as to make it impossible to get a useful amount of energy from it.
 

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