Did Saddam's Fall Spur WMD Component Smuggling?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the claims regarding the smuggling of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) components and missiles from Iraq following the fall of Saddam Hussein's regime during the U.S.-led war in 2003. Participants explore various perspectives on the implications of these claims, the motivations behind the smuggling, and the broader consequences of the war.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference a UN report suggesting that Saddam Hussein shipped WMD components and missiles before and after the war.
  • Others express skepticism about the significance of the findings, arguing that the materials being smuggled were largely scrap and not functional weapons.
  • There are claims that the lack of control following the war facilitated the smuggling of contraband, though the extent and nature of this smuggling are debated.
  • Some participants argue that the smuggling of scrap metal does not equate to the transportation of operational weapons, questioning the logic behind the claims of large-scale movement of WMDs.
  • A few participants highlight the absurdity of the idea that valuable weapons would be dismantled and smuggled as scrap, suggesting that the costs involved would outweigh any potential profits.
  • Concerns are raised about the lack of oversight during the war, with some questioning why no significant movements of weapons were detected by authorities.
  • There are assertions that after the fall of Saddam, individuals took it upon themselves to collect and sell scrap metal, independent of any orders from the former regime.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature or significance of the smuggling activities. While some agree that scrap metal was indeed moved, others dispute the characterization of this material as WMD components or suggest that the scale of smuggling is exaggerated.

Contextual Notes

Participants express varying assumptions about the definitions of weapons and scrap, the motivations behind smuggling, and the implications of the war on control over such activities. The discussion reflects a complex interplay of perspectives without resolving the underlying uncertainties.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in the geopolitical implications of the Iraq War, the dynamics of post-conflict environments, and the debates surrounding weapons proliferation may find this discussion relevant.

GENIERE
From the World Tribune Website:

"The United Nations has determined that Saddam Hussein shipped weapons of mass destruction components as well as medium-range ballistic missiles before, during and after the U.S.-led war against Iraq in 2003.

The UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission briefed the Security Council on new findings that could help trace the whereabouts of Saddam's missile and WMD program."

For the rest of the story: >>>>http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_1.html
 
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If true, I will do my best not to gloat to those that took the opportunity to be on their soapboxes.
 
Yet another reason why we should not have gone to war in Iraq
 
Actually this very same subject was discussed here some time ago. People are grabbing all the metal they can, loading it on trucks, and selling it as scrap.
 
So,

The UN is shown evidence that Iraq has contraband missiles.
Missile sites are dismantled
Iraq begins destroying missiles.
Missile parts start showing up in junkyards.

Excuse me if I am not alarmed.

Njorl
 
Actually, they found in a scrap-yard an engine from a SAM, which was also used in a missile they were not allowed to have. They have also found huge amounts of other scrap metals over the past months.
 
Dissident Dan said:
Yet another reason why we should not have gone to war in Iraq

I fail to see how that is
 
phatmonky said:
I fail to see how that is

I totally agree with you phatmonky. Also I do not agree with the suspision of Iraq moving missiles and weapons of mass destruction. So we did not notice thousands of missiles and wmd's being transported to the Netherlands or even Iran(Though they are helping us). No, no, no. Saddam never moved anything. Maybe dismantled sites and scraped any program he had but as for a massive transport, or even small ones, that most likely never happened. Maybe though, but I doubt it.
 
  • #10
The lack of control that the war resulted in allowed all sorts of dangerous contraband to be smuggled about.
 
  • #11
Dissident Dan said:
The lack of control that the war resulted in allowed all sorts of dangerous contraband to be smuggled about.

So the war allowed Saddam to smuggle this? Not the time the war was put off?
Again, your logic doesn't seem straight.
 
  • #12
phatmonky said:
So the war allowed Saddam to smuggle this? Not the time the war was put off?
Again, your logic doesn't seem straight.


Yet again I must agree with phatmonky.
 
  • #13
Adam hit the nail on the head...the UN had Iraq scrap weapons, and Iraq smuggled the useless scrap out of the country for money. There's no smoking gun here, at least not yet, and we shouldn't pretend otherwise.
 
  • #14
Zero said:
Adam hit the nail on the head...the UN had Iraq scrap weapons, and Iraq smuggled the useless scrap out of the country for money. There's no smoking gun here, at least not yet, and we shouldn't pretend otherwise.

Oh yes! They took the time to smuggle the metal out for scrap money :smile: :smile:
Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? The cost of smuggling does not outweight the low cost of pay for scrap metal!
A missile is only worth something when it's together - the raw material in itself is not worth jack.
 
  • #15
phatmonky said:
Oh yes! They took the time to smuggle the metal out for scrap money :smile: :smile:
Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? The cost of smuggling does not outweight the low cost of pay for scrap metal!
A missile is only worth something when it's together - the raw material in itself is not worth jack.

Um... As I said earlier, we did cover this in another thread a while ago. People are taking metal out of Iraq by the truckload, and scrapping it in other nations, for a quick profit.

http://www.recyclingtoday.com/news/news.asp?ID=5869
http://www.cpa-iraq.org/pressreleases/20040428_scrap.html
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/6916B6A2-20DB-4B2C-96EA-9A4ED9EC6DED.htm
http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&q=iraq+metal+scrap&btnG=Search&meta=
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #16
Can someone please explain to me then why no one noticed them trucking hundreds to thousands of weapons out? Even if it was just a bunch of metal at least on truck would have been stopped, searched, and discovered. I highly doubt the movement of weapons, scrap or not.
 
  • #17
Kacper said:
Can someone please explain to me then why no one noticed them trucking hundreds to thousands of weapons out? Even if it was just a bunch of metal at least on truck would have been stopped, searched, and discovered. I highly doubt the movement of weapons, scrap or not.
Because a) it wasn't hundreds of thousands, and b) it was parts of weapons, technically not to be moved without UN permission, but not actually weapons. A rocket without fuel, a guidance system and a warhead makes a really nice planter.
 
  • #18
phatmonky said:
So the war allowed Saddam to smuggle this? Not the time the war was put off?
Again, your logic doesn't seem straight.

Firstly, this is not apparently due to any orders of sadam. After his government fell, other people took it upon themselves to grab the metal and sell it in other countries.
 

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