Do Photons Have a Nucleus or Electrons?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of photons, specifically whether they possess an atomic structure similar to protons, neutrons, and electrons, and the implications of their properties such as spin and charge. Participants explore concepts related to photon behavior, interactions with matter, and the theoretical underpinnings of their motion at the speed of light.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that photons are fundamental particles without internal composition, meaning they cannot be broken down into smaller components.
  • There is a discussion on the relationship between spin and charge, with some stating that they are distinct quantum numbers that do not influence each other.
  • One participant explains that photons travel at the speed of light (c) because they are massless and that their motion is described by Maxwell's equations.
  • Another participant raises the question of how photons can pass through solid walls, suggesting that this occurs probabilistically based on interactions with atoms.
  • There is curiosity about the nature of photon interactions with atoms, including whether photons are absorbed and how this affects atomic energy states.
  • Some participants mention string theory and its relation to the indivisibility of particles, although there is acknowledgment of limited expertise in this area.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that photons are fundamental particles without internal structure. However, there are differing views on the implications of their properties and interactions, particularly regarding how they interact with matter and the nature of those interactions. The discussion remains unresolved on several points, including the specifics of photon interactions with atoms and the concept of strings.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the probabilistic nature of photon interactions with matter, which is not fully explored, and the lack of consensus on the implications of string theory in relation to photons.

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Do photons have an atomic nucleus with protons and neutrons and electrons? Does spin effect charge? Anything? Why do photons travel at c? Where do they get this power to travel at c from?
 
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Photons are fundamental particles; they do not have any internal composition, and cannot be broken down into smaller pieces.

Spin is a different quantum number than is charge. They do not "affect" each other.

Photons travel at c because they are massless. Maxwell's equations of electromagnetism describe self-perpetuating oscillations in the electromagnetic field, and these oscillations must propagate at a specific velocity, c, to be self-perpetuating.

Photons do not need "power" to travel at c. Newton's first law indicates that an object in motion stays in motion unless acted upon by a force. A photon does not "propel" itself actively; it begins its life moving at c, and spends its entire life moving at c, until it hits something.

- Warren
 
Photons have enough energy to pass through a solid wall right?

Photons are fundamental particles; they do not have any internal composition, and cannot be broken down into smaller pieces.

How about strings?
 
Photons can pass through solid walls if they just happen to not interact with any of the atoms in the wall. The interaction of a photon with an atom is probabilistic; the best you can say is that a given photon has a certain chance of interacting with a given atom. If the wall is thick enough, the probability of interaction becomes very high, and very little light makes it through.

Strings are also indivisible, but they can change characteristics like modes of vibration. I am frankly not well-versed on string theory, however, so perhaps someone else can add more.

- Warren
 
What happens exactly, when a photon interacts with the atoms in a given solid wall? Is there a virtual particle interaction of some sort when they interact? In what sense does a photon interact with atoms making up a wall? does it get absorbed by atoms (so that the atom becomes a high energy atom for a given period of time)?
do photons have charge? I don't suppose so, since they aren't composed of any of the elementary particles.
 
The photon interacts with the atom by giving an atom enough energy to change from one "orbit" to another. Basically, the photon gives its energy to the atom, exciting it. The energy doesn't disappear, it's just turned into heat.

- Warren
 

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