| Thread Closed |
the iron law of oligarchy |
Share Thread |
| Jul15-09, 10:08 PM | #1 |
|
|
the iron law of oligarchy
The iron law of oligarchy is a political theory, first developed by the German syndicalist sociologist Robert Michels in his 1911 book, Political Parties. It states that all forms of organization, regardless of how democratic or autocratic they may be at the start, will eventually and inevitably develop into oligarchies. The reasons for this are the technical indispensability of leadership, the tendency of the leaders to organize themselves and to consolidate their interests; the gratitude of the led towards the leaders, and the general immobility and passivity of the masses. - from Wikipedia
------ Though bleak and pessimistic, possibly apathetic, it seems very likely. ------ also, check out this website (not mine, not affiliated) for interesting videos, whether agreeable or not, on current and historically-relevant topics: http://maximumhell.net/ (user NXSchell on Youtube) |
| Jul16-09, 08:23 AM | #2 |
|
|
While I don't know anything about Robert Michel or his theory, I would have to disagree with the premise that "the tendency of the leaders to organize themselves and to consolidate their interests." Why does he make the assumption that leaders will not have conflicting interests? What is the mechanism by which they consolidate their conflicting interests?
Also the empirical evidence seems to contradict his theory, according to the shift index released just recently, the US economy has become much more competitive over time, and not more oligarchical. I think the best theory, and a slightly more modern theory, about group organization is Mancur Olson's The Logic of Collective Action: Public Goods and the Theory of Groups |
| Jul16-09, 10:24 AM | #3 |
|
|
I would disagree that oligarchies should generally be characterized as having large-scale harmonious relationships WITHIN the oligarchy class.
For example, the nobles in feudal Europe were perfectly capable of retaining their oligarchical position vs. both the monarchy and the lower classes, but it was not at all a class characterized by internal harmony. Quite the opposite! Knights fought EACH OTHER incessantly, and a better view would be that precisely BECAUSE of this internal bloodletting, none of the members of that class would be averse to utilize violence/displays of power in order to cement their oligarchical position. Oligarchical intra-violence/competition can be said to hone their skills of power-wielding, giving them a leverage against those classes not engaged in incessant in-fighting. |
| Aug22-09, 10:47 PM | #4 |
|
|
the iron law of oligarchyWhat Michels observed in the socialist party in Germany has to be put in historical context. It was believed by many based on Marx that a proletarian revolution by the masses would lead to communism after a series of back-and-forth upheavals between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat -- the utopian (or dystopian, depending on your political affiliation) view of a classless society. Michels argued against Marx because in his quasi-ethnographic description of the development of the proletarian movement in Prussia he observed quite the opposite. The movement over time dissipated. The masses became apathetic and disinvolved, leaving a core of leaders to run the organizations the movement had left behind. The leaders now set criteria for joining these organizations, including certain technical and bureaucratic skills, which made it further unlikely that the typical worker could join. They set training and career tracks for those fit to participate in the party. As the workers became more and more apathetic (or it became harder and harder for them to participate in the affairs of the party), the leaders consolidated their power more and more. Michels, however, never said that elite cleavages could not happen. In fact, he was so disappointed by the fact that the leaders could not agree among themselves and that the majority of the leaders of the socialist party supported WWI (after having pledged not to), and that movements seemed to dissolve into bureaucratic organizations, that he became convinced that the only way out of this rut was to have a charismatic leader lead an organization. His ill-placed bet that Mussolini represented that kind of leader who could bring social change led to Michels becoming disreputable and persona non grata in the social sciences for many years. Michels thinking greatly influenced Lenin, who became convinced that building a sophisticated cadre of communist leaders was key to avoid the pitfalls Michels had seen. In other words, he believed that only leaders could bring about communism! Ironic for sure, since they were fighting for a classless society. |
| Aug22-09, 11:09 PM | #5 |
|
|
Another field in economics, sociology and psychology named organization theory and behavior deals with the internal workings of organizations. The best macro-theories are probably sociological, while the best micro-theories are probably psychological. Economist theories are a bit too simplistic because they rely on unrealistic assumptions to model human behavior and are too functionalist (if something exists, it's because it makes organizations efficient; not a very testable proposition). There are so many different perspectives in this field that it would take a long time to explain them. But you can look it up on Wikipedia. Of course, there is widespread recognition in the social sciences today that Michels' explanation was overly simplistic. The theory is definitely not modern. Olson came up with it in the 1970's. Economists continue to work in the framework, but political process theorists have definitely become the dominant scholars of social movements. Their detailed historical accounts of movements have cast doubts on economic theories. The current debate lies on whether psychological or social factors are more important in movement emergence, as well as what role do elites play in movement development (e.g., one prediction is that elites who exercise too much force to crack down on a movement strengthen it by enabling the movement to get media coverage -- awareness -- and widespread sympathy). |
| Aug22-09, 11:11 PM | #6 |
|
|
|
| Aug23-09, 03:51 PM | #7 |
|
|
There is not the slightest reason to believe that bloody, internal and perennial squabbles within the nobility generate opportunities for the peasants to take control. In fact, we know they never did. |
| Aug23-09, 04:03 PM | #8 |
|
|
The next question is one of resource mobilization. Can the disenfranchised group mobilize resources against the divided elite? Can they form the right coalitions needed to garner these resources? The ability to mobilize resources requires pre-existing networks or organizations of people and things ready to be mobilized. Here is where the peasants were often doomed to failure. They didn't have them. This is why political process scholars have been successful at demonstrating that most revolutions occur from the middle class. The poor, hungry masses generally never have the type of organizational capabilities to mobilize. |
| Aug23-09, 05:45 PM | #9 |
|
|
"opportunities to mobilize"
This is a vague term bordering on meaninglessness: Why shouldn't a monolithic oligarchy be less of an "opportunity to mobilize" than a non-monolithic one? After all, if the oligarchy is precisely defined, it is easier to identify who the "enemy" is. Nor is there any reason why a squabbling elite should be perceived as less weak than a compact elite. Perceived weakness, IMO, has a lot more to do with ineffective, hesitant execution of subjugation measures than with the temporary utilization of violence directed laterally, rather than vertically, as in the subjugation measure proper. In fact, by being awed, frightened by-standers of bloody clashes WITHIN the elite, the displayed willingness of elite members to utilize violence may be a stronger deterrent for rebellion than if the elite is seen as a compact group governing through "hallowed custom" and other non-violent subjugation techniques. |
| Aug23-09, 07:17 PM | #10 |
|
|
It seems that you are interested in learning more about the dominant approach to studying social movements, and more generally, political mobilization. I recommend you check the classic text in the field. As with most scientific fields, the wikipedia entries for political process theory and social movements are weak, so I would not go by that, though this one gives you a good enough overview of some of the theories in the field.
|
| Aug24-09, 04:59 AM | #11 |
|
|
Not really.
From what you have told me, it sounds like nonsense. |
| Aug24-09, 09:17 AM | #12 |
|
|
Your dismissiveness is surprising, particularly since you are asking about the subject, which one could interpret as your not knowing a lot about it and being interested in learning more.
It's too bad that you judge this to be "nonsense" without even reading about the theory, its assumptions, its predictions, its findings, and its specific applications. All I was giving you was a taste of the theory, not the entire theory. That's what the other resources are for. |
| Aug24-09, 09:35 AM | #13 |
|
|
For example, a large migration of African Americans from the South to the North enabled them to acquire resources, build communities and organizations, etc. that were later used to mobilize against the South. But it was 40 years or so before the opportunity window for mobilization emerged, which was a split within the Democratic Party about race and the desire of the Democratic Party to secure northern, urban African American votes. |
| Aug24-09, 01:16 PM | #14 |
|
|
Perhaps you might read a few thoughts I've written down, tangentially related to the issue at hand:
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=294415 |
| Sep16-09, 04:18 PM | #15 |
|
|
|
| Sep16-09, 06:13 PM | #16 |
|
Recognitions:
|
Basically the old feudal-aristocratic class, based on the privilege of land ownership, was replaced by a bourgeois-capitalist class, based on ownership of industry. Not because there was a major division among the nobility at that time, but because of economics. The wealth of the nobility dwindled as that of the merchant-bourgeois class increased. It was only a matter of time before they started demanding commensurate political power. |
| Sep17-09, 01:02 PM | #17 |
|
|
I hope every discussion on sociology doesn't have to immediately spiral off to the peasants and the nobels, at least since the Monty Python sketch.
|
| Thread Closed |
| Tags |
| current events, foreign affairs, government, oligarchy, sociology |
Similar discussions for: the iron law of oligarchy
|
||||
| Thread | Forum | Replies | ||
| If the mass of 1 kg of cotton and 1 kg of iron is the same , why is the iron heavier | Introductory Physics Homework | 5 | ||
| Redox Titration - Determining the % of Iron II and Iron III | Biology, Chemistry & Other Homework | 4 | ||
| Redox Titration - Determining the % of Iron II and Iron III | Biology, Chemistry & Other Homework | 0 | ||
| How to Separate Rust Iron (Fe2O3) into Ferum/Iron and Oxygen? | Chemistry | 5 | ||
| Why iron from a bloomery has less carbon than iron from a blast furnace? | General Engineering | 0 | ||