Mathematical representation of higher dimensions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical representation of higher dimensions in theories such as Kaluza-Klein theory and Superstring theory. Participants explore how additional dimensions are identified and justified within these frameworks, considering both theoretical implications and the relationship between dimensions and physical forces.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how higher dimensions are identified in equations, particularly in the context of Kaluza-Klein and Superstring theories, questioning the speculative nature of these dimensions.
  • Another participant explains that in string theory, the number of dimensions is determined by the mathematical requirements of the physics, leading to different dimensional frameworks for various theories (26 for bosonic string theory, 10 for superstring theory, and 11 for M-theory).
  • A participant notes that Kaluza-Klein theory begins with one extra dimension beyond the four of normal spacetime, which allows for the emergence of Einstein's General Relativity and Maxwell's equations from a higher-dimensional perspective.
  • There is a reiteration that the necessity for more dimensions arises from the physics described by the equations, with one participant emphasizing that the underlying physics causes mathematical challenges.
  • Another participant suggests that the inclusion of General Relativity in higher dimensions may help reconcile discrepancies between Relativity and Quantum Theory.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants seem to agree that the identification of higher dimensions is closely tied to the mathematical structure of the theories, but there is no consensus on the implications or the nature of these dimensions, leaving room for speculation and differing interpretations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion touches on the speculative nature of higher dimensions and the dependence on the mathematical formulation of physical theories, but does not resolve the underlying assumptions or the experimental verification of these theories.

Halitosis Crunch
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I'm rather new to physics in general, so bear with me in my potential ignorance.

Considering we have no idea of the absolute properties of higher dimensions, how is it that they're identified in equations? This especially perplexes me when thinking about the Kaluza-Klein theory, or even Superstring theory. How does one know how many dimensions necessary for the given forces to unify without falling on pure speculation?

Assuming it ultimately has to do with spatial limitations, and that in higher dimensions it naturally allows for unification, how do the mechanics of it actually work?

I suppose I enjoy the questions more than answers. Hopefully I'm making sense.
 
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In string theory you start with any number of dimension (but it's all relativistic, so one of the dimensions is time). Then you work up your physics, and it turns out that the physics math will blow up unless you specify a certain number of dimensions. And that's how they get 26 dimensional spacetime for bosonic string theory and 10 dimensional for superstring theory, and 11-dimensional for M-theory. Different dimensions because somewhat different physics in each case.

In Kalusza-Klein theory they started with just one extra dimension past the four of normal spacetime. Then if you set up an Einstein-like action on this 5-dimensional manifold, the physics broke out so the 4-dimensional manifild had Einstein's GR and the extra dimension carried Maxwell's equations of electro magnetism.
 
I see, so the necessity for more dimensions is a direct result of the equations.
 
Halitosis Crunch said:
I see, so the necessity for more dimensions is a direct result of the equations.

Really of the physics described by the equations. The problem turns up in the math, but it's basically caused by the underlying physics.
 
Halitosis Crunch said:
I see, so the necessity for more dimensions is a direct result of the equations.


A good example, is the inclusion of GR. :smile: Although we have not satisfied the direct experiment verification of gravity waves, certain realizations of the Webber bar reveal something was happening, so they had to progress experimentally to LIGO?
 
In effect it's like expanding the box to make things fit in harmony, I suppose. I can see how the inclusion of GR in higher dimensions provides a remedy for the discrepancies between Relativity and Quantum Theory.
 

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