Aeroplane & Cloud Mysteries: How Planes Pass Through Clouds

  • Context: High School 
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of airplanes traveling through clouds and the perceived disturbance (or lack thereof) caused to the clouds. Participants explore aerodynamic principles, the effects of jet engines, and the visibility of disturbances within clouds.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why a cloud would be disturbed by an airplane, suggesting that airplanes are designed to be aerodynamic and minimize air disturbance, likening it to a diver making little splash.
  • Another participant acknowledges that clouds are indeed disturbed to some extent, indicating that there is some level of disturbance caused by airplanes.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that while clouds may appear undisturbed, they actually are affected by the vortices produced by jet airliners, which can take a long time to dissipate and can create turbulence that is not visible from the ground.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of separation between aircraft due to the potential for violent turbulence left by a preceding airplane, particularly when approaching landing strips.
  • A participant provides a link to a webpage that presumably illustrates relevant aerodynamic effects, although the content of the link is not discussed in detail.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the extent to which clouds are disturbed by airplanes. While some argue that clouds remain largely undisturbed, others contend that there is significant disturbance, particularly from vortices. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the visibility and impact of these disturbances.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding assumptions about visibility within clouds and the specific aerodynamic effects of different aircraft designs. The discussion does not resolve the complexities of these interactions.

wolram
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Why is it that an aeroplane can travel through a small cloud and the cloud does not seem to have been disturbed.
 
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Why would the cloud be disturbed? Airplanes are designed to be aerodynamic: aerodynamic means not disturbing the air.

It's like a skilled diver diving into a pool but making very little splash.
 
russ_watters said:
Why would the cloud be disturbed? Airplanes are designed to be aerodynamic: aerodynamic means not disturbing the air.

It's like a skilled diver diving into a pool but making very little splash.

There is still the thrust from jet engines.
 
Well, they are disturbed a little.
 
wolram said:
Why is it that an aeroplane can travel through a small cloud and the cloud does not seem to have been disturbed.

I think the cloud only seems undisturbed.

A jet airliner produces vortices from its wingtips. Those vortices take a long time to dissipate. When two airliners are flying in the same corridor (which is generally avoided but inevitable when approaching a landing strip), then the separation must be at least two minutes. Too short a time interval and the still violent turbulence may crash the trailing aeroplane. Wherever a jet airliner flies, it will leave heavy disturbance.

But if inside a cloud a portion of the air mass is turbulent, would you spot that from the ground? I don't see how. You cannot see inside a cloud; it's a cloud when you cannot see through it.

Cleonis
 
Scroll down about 1/3rd into this web page to see the effect:

http://home.comcast.net/~clipper-108/lift.htm
 
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