The 3D equivalent to Quaternion?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the search for a 3-dimensional equivalent to quaternions, exploring the properties of various number systems such as complex numbers, quaternions, and octonions. Participants express curiosity about the prevalence of algebras with dimensions that are powers of two and their implications in mathematics and physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether there is a specific name for a 3-dimensional equivalent to quaternions and notes the seeming preference for algebras with dimensions that are powers of two.
  • Another participant discusses the historical context of searching for a three-component "hypernumber" and highlights that Hamilton's quaternions describe three-dimensional rotations, emphasizing their non-commutative nature.
  • It is mentioned that the next algebra after quaternions is octonions, which have eight components, and that there is a theorem stating no new algebras exist beyond this point.
  • A participant introduces a topological perspective, relating the multiplication of complex numbers to tangent bundles and division algebras, suggesting that the only possible division algebras have dimensions that are powers of two.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the significance of powers of two in the context of these algebras and the limitations of existing number systems, but there is no consensus on the existence of a 3-dimensional equivalent to quaternions or the implications of these findings.

Contextual Notes

The discussion touches on complex mathematical concepts such as Clifford algebras, tangent bundles, and the properties of division algebras, which may require further clarification or assumptions that are not fully explored in the thread.

Aidman
Messages
16
Reaction score
0
Hi all,

Was wondering if the 3-dimensional equivalent to Quaternion has a name? And why does it seem like (at least for me) that only the groups, who’s number of values it holds is 2^n (where n is a integer value), are more intensively used compared to those who’s value count is not 2^n? I am for instance talking about complex numbers, quaternion and octonion. Is it just me or is there a reason for why these are more popular then groups who for example uses the imaginary numbers i and j? Please note that I am just asking of curiosity.

EDIT: sry if this all sounds foolish or unnecessary
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
In the middle 19th century, people had been looking for a three component "hypernumber" that would do for three dimensional space what complex two component numbers did for the plane. Nobody succeeded. Hamilton realized that the algbra that described three dimensional rotations was not three component but four component. His quaternions are actually the algebraic decriptors of three dimensional motions. They obey all the algebraic laws except commutation, but that is all right, because the rotations in three space are not commutative.

You are perfectly right about the powers of two. Google on "Clifford Algebras" to see the reasons. The next algebra up from the quaternions is that of the octonions. Eight components. But there is a theorem that there are no new ones after that, and the octonions in addition to being not commutative, are also not associative.
 
selfAdjoint said:
You are perfectly right about the powers of two. Google on "Clifford Algebras" to see the reasons. The next algebra up from the quaternions is that of the octonions. Eight components. But there is a theorem that there are no new ones after that, and the octonions in addition to being not commutative, are also not associative.

AKA "Cayley numbers", and it was Frobenius who proved that there are only the complex numbers (which aren't ordered), quaternions (which aren't communative), and the Cayley numbers (which aren't even associative)
 
There is a cute way to look at this problem using topology (and related to clifford algebras probably).

Note that the complex number multiplication on R^2 let's us define for each unit vector v in R^2 a perpendicular one iv, and hence a non zero vector at v, tangent to the unit circle, which is also viewed as P^1, the projective line.

Thus the existence of this multiplication implies that P^1 has one field of non zero tangent vectors, i.e. a trivial tangent bundle.

In general a division algebra structure R^n x R^n -->R^n, implies that P^(n-1) has (n-1) independent fields of non zero tangent vectors, hence a trivial tangent bundle.

Now there is a little gadget for confirming triviality of a tangent bundle called a stiefel whitney class w. These can actually be computed for projective spaces and one can show that w(P^r) is only zero when r +1 = 2^s, for some s.

It follows immediately that the only possible division algebras have dimension 2^s.

That the only actual ones have dimensions 1,2,4,8, is harder I guess.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
7K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
8K
  • · Replies 61 ·
3
Replies
61
Views
11K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K