Justice for Victims of Agent Orange

[hiphys]

To: The U.S. President and others
AGENT ORANGE, THE CHEMICAL, has killed, is still killing, and causing great suffering to over three million people in Vietnam.

PLEASE HELP THEM BY SIGNING THIS PETITION on http://www.petitiononline.com/AOVN/petition.html
We welcome and support the Civil Action brought by the Vietnam Association of Victims of Agent Orange/Dioxin, and three Vietnamese victims. The documents have been submitted to a court in New York, on behalf of all affected by the chemicals used by the American Forces in their War on Vietnam.

This will be the first ever such action by Vietnamese victims of Agent Orange in any court of law.

We call upon the U.S. President, Government and the Chemical Companies named as defendants in the documents, to accept their responsibilities for the damage caused by their actions and products, and to pay full compensation to the vict

 

[Adam]

Yep, I have signed. Such savage use of chemical weapons must be properly addressed at some point.

 

[hiphys]

Call for help

Agent Orange is still being blamed for birth defects more than 30 years since its use
Researchers reported at the conference that a new study shows extremely high levels of dioxin in the blood of residents of Bien Hoa, a highly sprayed area near a former U.S. air base, more than 30 years after spraying ended.

Some of the highest levels -- reaching 206 times greater than average -- were found in people born well after spraying stopped, indicating exposure to persistent dioxin residues in soil and water, the researchers said.

Dioxin, one of the most poisonous chemicals created by man, is also one of the most persistent pollutants.

Vietnam's cash-strapped government has not been able to clean up the dioxin pollution in Bien Hoa or resettle the area's 20,000 residents.

At the conference Vice Minister Nguyen talked of the need to clear the area of toxins.

"The objective is to bring dioxin contamination across Vietnam down to internationally acceptable levels and do all that can be done to mitigate the health effects," Nguyen said.

"The United States waged chemical warfare against Vietnam 30 years ago. Cooperation with the U.S. is very necessary."

Anne Sassaman of the U.S. National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences told the conference the talks over the next two days would deal with setting research priorities.

Collaboration started between the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and Vietnam would likely result in scientists in Vietnam being able to evaluate and define the extent of the residual hazard posed by Agent Orange and dioxin, she added.

Vietnam Veterans of America, which has lobbied for years to get compensation for its members, said it was anxious to see research move ahead in Vietnam.

 

[JohnDubYa]

Agent Orange was not a weapon.

 

[kat]

Well, I'm glad to see that they are having their day in court, but how does a petition help their court case? I'm feeling a bit dubious about the intentions of the petition. It would seem that it would have no relevancy whatsovever and that someone may instead be harvesting information and email addresses.

 

[JohnDubYa]

If the Vietnamese are having their day in court, what is the purpose of the petition in the first place? If the petition is being served to those involved in a trial, is it even legal?

 

[hiphys]

The purpose of this petition is collecting at least 300.000 signatures before December 2004.This petition will be sent to American government .
This program was created by Len Aldis, the president of Britain-Vietnam Friendship Society.He himself has seen the terrible effects of AGENT ORANGE on many Vietnamese in many generations. He wrote this petition to call the supports and notice of people around the world.
By signing this petition, you can show that you one of those who support the AGENT ORANGE affected Vietnamese.The petition can be consider as the voice of peace-lovers .
We close the past, but we can't forget it, and we need to do something to heal the sorrow.

 

[hiphys]

I wish that you can see the sorrow in an Agent orange affected child.Many children in Vietnam have been being stolen their childhood, their life by Agent orange .You can search "Agent orange " on Google to see what happened.
Vietnam has tried a lot to heal the sorrow of the war. It has been 29 years since the war ended, but the Agent orange still exists as the ghost of war.
It has killed, is still killing, and causing great suffering to over three million people in Vietnam...
Let the conscience say...

 

[hiphys]

**********PICTURE OF AN AGENT ORANGE AFFECTED CHILD********


"This is Le Minh Dat in Quang Tri ,Vietnam.
This photo was taken in 1998, when Dat was 13 years old.People said that he couldn't understand anything because his brain had "died".But I felt he still understood ! He lay on the bed, I had taken a lot of photos and looked at him for a long time.When I was going to leave, his eyes traced me and give his hand to me..."
Written by Philip Jones Griffiths,photographer.
The author, of "Agent orange “collateral damage” in Vietnam"

 

[member 5645]

By signing this petition, you can show that you one of those who support the AGENT ORANGE affected Vietnamese.


The petition can be consider as the voice of peace-lovers .

We close the past, but we can't forget it, and we need to do something to heal the sorrow.

Support them do what?


How is that? No one is petitioning against a war.

heal the sorrow? Sir, you will do better in your cause by not using cliches.

 

[member 5645]

We call upon the U.S. President, Government and the Chemical Companies named as defendants in the documents, to accept their responsibilities for the damage caused by their actions and products, and to pay full compensation to the vict

What exactly would I be signing? I personally would need proof that the chemical companies have any resposibility. I also don't know what "full compensation" means.

right now, I am leaning towards not signing, and I am very sympathetic to the plight of innocents afflicted by war.

 

[loseyourname]

We call upon the U.S. President to accept their responsibilities for the damage caused by their actions and products, and to pay full compensation to the vict

You do realize Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon are all dead, correct?

 

[fisipavia]

You do realize Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon are all dead, correct?

The President is a representative of his country. You cannot said that what have been done earlier by another president is not the responsibility of the ones that follow him. When they accept to become presidents they certainly do not become guilty of the bad things done by other presidents but they do have de responsibility to “correct” what has been done. In this case there is no way to correct what have been done but at least they can help these people. You cannot accept the presidency ignoring the effects of history, that is the effects that will have what you do and the effects of what is already done by others. So, in another words, when he speaks of the president's responsibilities he is talking about US responsibilities.

 

[loseyourname]

Does the president of Vietnam have a responsibility because the VC disguised themselves as civilians, resulting in many innocent civilian deaths?

 

[fisipavia]

That’s not my point. I am just saying that the US president does have a responsibility not matter what. After all the US army was the one that used Orange Agent. But answering to your question, yes… the Vietnam president have the responsibility to protect the well-being of Vietnam citizens and also the responsibility to demand justice for them , just as the US president have a responsibility with American citizens. I am not speaking of who is guilty, and by saying that US have a responsibility with those people I am not excluding other entities that also have the responsibility of helping them.

 

[loseyourname]

Is there any statute of limitations on how long a given nation's president owes reparations to the victims of actions taken by a former regime? Should the current president of Japan officially apologize and make payments to POW's who were tortured during WWII? Remember that this petition is asking for monetary compensation. The money that would be used it taxpayer money. Are the people paying taxes today responsible for actions taken by their nation's military several decades ago?

 

[JohnDubYa]

When they accept to become presidents they certainly do not become guilty of the bad things done by other presidents

George W. owes us an apology then for Clinton lying to us about Monica Lewinsky.

Sorry, but those that actually committed the acts are the only ones that are guilty.

 

[JohnDubYa]

He wrote this petition to call the supports and notice of people around the world.

To do what? Why is it that the answer to this question is so hard to come by?

 

[Adam]

George W. owes us an apology then for Clinton lying to us about Monica Lewinsky.

Sorry, but those that actually committed the acts are the only ones that are guilty.

So:

• Germany should cease paying off Israel for WW2?
• The USA should re-zone all native American reservations and such for development?
• Australia should re-zone all native Australian reservations and such for development?
• Swiss banks should tell Jewish families who were harmed during WW2 to go for a long walk of a short pier?
• The USA should ignore the fact that Agent Orange still causes deformity and death in Vietnam?

 

[hiphys]

Does the president of Vietnam have a responsibility because the VC disguised themselves as civilians, resulting in many innocent civilian deaths?

1. We call Vietnam war the people 's war.The Vietnamese civilians fight for themselves, for their country not for VC.If U.S were under attack in their land someday, would the American cilvilian fight for their country ?
2. Agent Orange was sprayed from the air plane, so could it distinguish VC among the Vietnamese civilians ? Agent Orange is a mass-killer, not only one generation but also many others..

 

[JohnDubYa]

* Germany should cease paying off Israel for WW2?

Is the German president guilty for the Holocaust?

* The USA should re-zone all native American reservations and such for development?

Should George W. be charged for the killing of Chief Joseph?

Australia should re-zone all native Australian reservations and such for development?

Should John Howard be charged for the murder of aborigines?

The words "responsible" and "guilt" are getting thrown around here a lot, and usually foolishly.

 

[hiphys]

No reason could be given to explain why the US sprayed such a poisonous chemical in Vietnam.Until that time, Dioxine was the most poisonous chemical that people could synthetize.
The American Government always criticize other countries developing chemical weapon, nuclear weapon, but they are the only country that used both of them and still develops nuclear weapons.
Someday, in some where, will they use them again if people continue to forget what they did in Vietnam ?

 

[JohnDubYa]

Okay, hiphys, let's try another question:

Is the current leader of Vietnam responsible for the torture of American POWs?

 

[jcsd]

Is there any statute of limitations on how long a given nation's president owes reparations to the victims of actions taken by a former regime? Should the current president of Japan officially apologize and make payments to POW's who were tortured during WWII? Remember that this petition is asking for monetary compensation. The money that would be used it taxpayer money. Are the people paying taxes today responsible for actions taken by their nation's military several decades ago?

They have, our family received a substantial sum a couple of years ago from the Japanese government for my Grandfather's internment at Changi (one of the worst POW camps), I'm not sure if this is the cas efor everyone tho', as my Grandfather was a civilian.

Of course the US should compensate the Vitenamese, not just for Agent Orange, but their appalling conduct in general in that war.

 

[jcsd]

Does the president of Vietnam have a responsibility because the VC disguised themselves as civilians, resulting in many innocent civilian deaths?

What apoligist rubbish, the US attacked the general Vietnamese population indiscrimately whether they had good reason to believ ethey were VC or not.

Vietnam is one of the blackest episodes in US history.

 

[hiphys]

I really don't want to discuss who was wrong or who was right in the war.
Every war has itself complex problem.To some Americans,that's the war to free Vietnamese from Communists.But to Vietnameses, that's the war to defend their homeland from the conquerers and their hands.We have different point of view. But now,the first,we should try to solve the remains.
It has been a long time after the war, and their victims may die someday without any justice.
Some people say that they don't have any responsibility for what their previous generations had done, so had the agent orange affected children made any mistake before they were born ?
A few dacades may be long to a person, but to a country,to the history, it's not so long.

 

[loseyourname]

1. We call Vietnam war the people 's war.The Vietnamese civilians fight for themselves, for their country not for VC.If U.S were under attack in their land someday, would the American cilvilian fight for their country ?
2. Agent Orange was sprayed from the air plane, so could it distinguish VC among the Vietnamese civilians ? Agent Orange is a mass-killer, not only one generation but also many others..

1. If they chose to fight, shouldn't they put up with the consequences? As soon as you pick up a gun, you're no longer an innocent bystander, you're an enemy target.

2. Well, what is it? Were they civilians that were of no threat, or did they fight?

What apoligist rubbish, the US attacked the general Vietnamese population indiscrimately whether they had good reason to believe they were VC or not.

What is good reason? When you go into one town and half your platoon is taken out by grenades thrown by some innocent-looking woman on a rice paddy, what would you do when you got to the next village? What documentation do you have that the US forces were ordered to kill indiscriminately?

To some Americans,that's the war to free Vietnamese from Communists.But to Vietnameses, that's the war to defend their homeland from the conquerers and their hands.We have different point of view.

What conquerors? Did somebody actually tell you that the US had plans to annex Vietnam or are you just making this up as you go along?

Some people say that they don't have any responsibility for what their previous generations had done, so had the agent orange affected children made any mistake before they were born ?

I'm sorry, but charging the manufacturer is a bit like charging Jack Daniels when a kid is born with fetal alcohol syndrome. If you can show me documentation that the US military intentionally targeted innocent civilians, then I might agree that some reparations are in order.

 

[jcsd]

What is good reason? When you go into one town and half your platoon is taken out by grenades thrown by some innocent-looking woman on a rice paddy, what would you do when you got to the next village? What documentation do you have that the US forces were ordered to kill indiscriminately?

You are trying to justify some pretty horrendous massacres, I only have to point you to the most famous example - Mai Lai and this was hardly an isolated incident.

I'm sick of ultar-nationalists who think that their country can do no wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

 

[russ_watters]

You are trying to justify some pretty horrendous massacres, I only have to point you to the most famous example - Mai Lai and this was hardly an isolated incident.

I'm sick of ultar-nationalists who think that their country can do no wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Mai Lai was a crime and those responsible should be (were?) punished. No one has said otherwise. But it is also a fact that the tactics of the enemy contributed to the incident. Had we only been fighting against uniformed soldiers, Mai Lai would not have happened.

No reason could be given to explain why the US sprayed such a poisonous chemical in Vietnam.Until that time, Dioxine was the most poisonous chemical that people could synthetize.
The American Government always criticize other countries developing chemical weapon, nuclear weapon, but they are the only country that used both of them and still develops nuclear weapons.

This has been said before, but Agent Orange was not a chemical weapon, it was a pesticide. That doesn't make it right to use it, but it is certainly also not right to mischaracterize it.

 

[JohnDubYa]

Your grandfather was probably not compensated by the Japanese government:

WHEREAS, while Japanese Government officials have expressed personal apologies and supported the payment of privately funded reparations to some victims, the Japanese Government has refused to fully acknowledge the crimes Imperial Japan committed during World War II and to provide reparations to its victims; and... (my emphasis)

http://www.expows.com/GA-HR142.htm

Agent Orange was a herbicide, actually. Still, not a weapon.

By the way, Vietnam refused to fight under the laws of the Geneva Convention. Fighting in uniform is one such requirement that was broken by countless civilians.