Meaning of Permittivity as used in EM

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of permittivity in electromagnetic contexts, exploring its physical meaning, implications for electric fields, and the behavior of materials with varying permittivity. Participants examine the relationship between electric field strength and permittivity, as well as the effects of polarization in different media.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Brian expresses confusion about the meaning of permittivity and its relationship to electric fields, questioning whether electric fields decrease as permittivity increases.
  • One participant asserts that the electric field does decrease with increasing permittivity due to dipoles aligning in a medium, which reduces the total energy of the system.
  • Another participant discusses the concept of displacement current in materials with high permittivity, suggesting that this movement of charges counters the electric field and reduces its strength, contrasting this with a vacuum where no such current exists.
  • A later reply clarifies that the movement of charges should be understood in terms of dipoles rather than as a current, emphasizing the role of induced dipole moments in materials without permanent dipoles.
  • Another participant notes that while vacuum has permittivity and displacement currents, it lacks clear dipoles compared to physical media, where dipole motion occurs under an electric field.
  • One participant conceptualizes permittivity as a measure of the ease of charge translation in space, contrasting it with permeability as the ease of rotation.
  • Claude interprets permittivity as describing the amount of electric flux generated per unit charge, noting that high permittivity leads to less electric flux due to polarization effects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various interpretations and understandings of permittivity, with no consensus reached on its implications or the best way to conceptualize its effects in different media.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions involve assumptions about the nature of charge movement and polarization, and there are references to specific materials and their properties, which may not be universally applicable.

brianparks
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Meaning of "Permittivity" as used in EM

Hello all,

I am having difficulty with the concept of permittivity as used in EM contexts. What is it a measure of? What is its physical meaning?

One thing that puzzles me is the relationship between electric field and permittivity:

E = (Q)/(4 * pi * permittivity * r^2)

Using the above equation for electric field, we are forced to conclude that electric field decreases as the permittivity of the medium increases. Is this the right conclusion?

Any help is greatly appreciated,
--Brian
 
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brianparks said:
Hello all,

I am having difficulty with the concept of permittivity as used in EM contexts. What is it a measure of? What is its physical meaning?

One thing that puzzles me is the relationship between electric field and permittivity:

E = (Q)/(4 * pi * permittivity * r^2)

Using the above equation for electric field, we are forced to conclude that electric field decreases as the permittivity of the medium increases. Is this the right conclusion?

Any help is greatly appreciated,
--Brian

The electric field does decrease as the permittivity of the medium increases. This happens physically because dipoles in a physical medium tend to align in such a way that they reduces the total energy of the system. In this low-energy configuration, the electric field is lowered.

If one defines the dielectric constant k = permitivity of medium / [tex]\epsilon_0[/tex], a material with a high k will increase the capacitance of a parallel plate capacitor. If one imagines sliding a sheet of high-k material in between the parallel plates while holding the charge Q fixed, one sees that the electric field between the plates decreases, and so does the voltage between the plates. If one pulls the dielectric sheet out again (which requires work), one sees that the voltage between the plates increases again to its original value.
 
Thanks for the help Pervect,

Tell me if this is right:

Suppose I have a material with a high permittivity. I apply an electric field across it. Positive charges (holes) in the material move toward the negative side of the field, and negative charges (electrons) in the material move toward the positive side of the field. This movement of charges, otherwise known as the displacement current, counters the electric field and therefore reduces its strength. In a vacuum, there is no displacement current, and therefore such a reduction does not occur.
 
brianparks said:
Thanks for the help Pervect,

Tell me if this is right:

Suppose I have a material with a high permittivity. I apply an electric field across it. Positive charges (holes) in the material move toward the negative side of the field, and negative charges (electrons) in the material move toward the positive side of the field. This movement of charges, otherwise known as the displacement current, counters the electric field and therefore reduces its strength. In a vacuum, there is no displacement current, and therefore such a reduction does not occur.

If you had holes and electrons moving, you'd be talking about a DC steady-state current flowing through a semiconductor, and you'd be talking about conductance, not about polarization.

Instead of holes and electrons moving, think of little dipoles rotating, as in the picture at

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/dielec.html#c1

Some materials, like water, have a permanent dipole moment, which is always present. However, materials without a permanent dipole moment will develop one in the presence of an electric field, a process called "induced dipole moment".

see for instance
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/diph2o.html
 
The Vacuum also has a permittivity of value eo and displacement currents flow in the vacuum ( this is where radiation such as radio waves originate ) however in this case there is no clear dipoles compared to a physical medium. There are neither hole or electron flows in the vacuum only field motions , but in a medium there is motion of the dipoles ( restricted to the atoms or molecules ) which can be construed as a real
alternating current under alternating field ( ex sinewave ).
Ray
 
I think of permittivity as the measure of ease of translation of charge in some space. Permeability would then be like the ease of rotation. This also always helps me remember maxwell's eqs (cause of curl only B, etc)
 
The permittivity of a medium describes how much electric field (more correctly, flux) is 'generated' per unit charge. Less electric flux exists in a medium with a high permittivity (per unit charge) due to polarisation effects.

Of course, this is simply the interpretation given by Gauss' Law using words rather than mathematics, and thus not very imaginative!

Claude.
 

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