How are Iraqi rebels obtaining illegal arms?

[devil-fire]

where are the iraqi rebels getting their weapons from? i thought that everyone or almost everyone from the former iraqi military who would have accses to small arms chaches either surrendered , were captured or were killed early in the invasion? is it just the small arms culture that has always been in iraq that is supplying weapons to these fighters? what kind of arms control is currently in place in iraq?

 

[devil-fire]

the thing is that right now, iraq has a lot of the world's attention and more importantly, the western world has high interest in there so most of the weapons are not likly to slip in like they did in rwanda. so i was thinking that either there are leaks in new iraq government or it could just be that the weapons were already everywhere before anyone invaded anything (i read an interview with the arms dealer that supplyed sadam before the kuwait invasion and he claimed something in the lines of 'owning an ak-47 is a right of passage in iraq'). maybe people had a lot of RPGs, rifles and ammunition before, but i would expect that to have been spent by now

thoughts?

 

[member 5645]

The Iraqis (on the BBC) have repeatedly reported seeing Sadr's militia with Iranian weapons and Iranian style dress.

 

[Adam]

At the moment, every household in Iraq is allowed to own one AK47 variant, or so our news clamied the other day.

 

[devil-fire]

nothing about all the RPGs or ammo?

 

[russ_watters]

Iraq was arms dealer to the world prior to the war. I'm sure there are caches all over the place.

 

[Adam]

Iraq was flooded with ex-Soviet military hardware for quite a while. Unfortunately it was not flooded with ex-Soviet engineers, so most of it is old and not so great.

 

[Gza]

Iraq was arms dealer to the world prior to the war.

Hmmm. I wonder where they could have gotten all those weapons.

 

[JohnDubYa]

Mostly from France and the Soviet Union, I suspect.

 

[Adam]

Well yes, generally ex-Soviet gear comes from ex-Soviet places.

 

[kat]

and some items had shown up from russia, I believe.

 

[tumor]

How many people in the USA have weapons? almost everyone.

 

[JohnDubYa]

What's your point, tumor?

 

[Smurf]

Mostly from France and the Soviet Union, I suspect.

Try the USA.

What's your point, tumor?

Well if almost everyone in the US has weapons, iraq is arms dealer of the world, is it possible almost everyone in iraq had weapons?


i rekon they smuggle weapons in from saudia arabia too.

 

[member 5645]

1>Try the USA.



2>Well if almost everyone in the US has weapons, iraq is arms dealer of the world, is it possible almost everyone in iraq had weapons?


3>i rekon they smuggle weapons in from saudia arabia too.

1>Show me some sort of validation for this assertion. I wasn't aware that we built and/or sold kalishnikovs to anyone

2>Not almost everyone in the US has weapons, however we do have enough weapons here for every person. The reason for that is our freedom to own them. As we all know, Saddam would not take kindly to his detractors having guns to fight him with (are we in agreement here, or do I need to get a link on this?). When did Iraq become the arms dealer of the world?

3> Why Saudi Arabia? Not saying atleast ONE gun didn't get smuggled from there, just wondering why the seemingly arbitrary choice?

 

[Smurf]

1.
A brief history of US participation in the Middle east, this is what people mean when they say 'They've interfered with so mucht that's none of their business'

in 1951 Iranian people democratically elect Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh as Iranian premier. in 53 the US ousts Mossadegh and isntalls Shah as dictator. In 79 the iranian people revolt against shah and take US hostages in retaliation (the embassy incident). The iraqi-Iranian war start when the US enters partnership with Saddam and gives him weapons and money to kill iranians in retaliation of the hostage taking. Saddam begins to develop Chemical and Biological Weapons. The relationship went sour during the gulf war when Pres Bush betrayed Saddam, thus resulting in the attempted assassination of Pres Bush Sn. by Saddam Hussein.

http://www.nytimes.com/library/world/mideast/041600iran-cia-index.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/CIA Hits/Iran_CIAHits.html
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/nation/4185241.htm?1c
http://foi.missouri.edu/terrorbkgd/following.html
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/nightline/DailyNews/us_iraq_history_1_020917.html
http://csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/durableRedirect.pl?/durable/1999/05/27/p23s3.htm
http://pilger.carlton.com/iraq/impact

2. Dunno, havn't researched it but its plausable. I was merely putting a theory together from tumor and Johns posts.

3. I've just been hearing a lot about AL Quadi running around in saudi arabia managing to evade officials, so it seems a likely spot, jordan doesn't have such a big problem, and syria is too well controlled i think. I know someone who lived there he said he saw secret service agents every other block, exageration for sure but still.

 

[member 5645]

1> Smurf, I'm aware of all of that. What does that have to do with a bunch of thugs running around with small arms? I don't see them running around with missilie trucks and tanks (even then they were all soviet as well). They have kalishnikovs and RPG's. Those were not what we provided.

 

[Smurf]

They have kalishnikovs and RPG's. Those were not what we provided.

why wouldn't it? AKs cost 7 bucks in africa, no one said the CIA wasnt cheap.

 

[member 5645]

They have kalishnikovs and RPG's. Those were not what we provided.

why wouldn't it? AKs cost 7 bucks in africa, no one said the CIA wasnt cheap.

So now this has devolved into conspiracy theory that can't be proven?
I'm going to bed.

 

[JohnDubYa]

You won't miss much.

 

[Smurf]

Why don't you believe the US would sell AKs And RPGs to the Iraqis? What would they give them? M-16s? I doubt it, too expensive, Saddam only needed to arm more troops, no reason to spend hundreds of dollars per soldier. Remember reading about how he marches women and children in front of his armies to dissuade the iranians?

 

[JohnDubYa]

Why don't you believe the US would sell AKs And RPGs to the Iraqis?

Is this your response? You are going to ask us if we believe it or not?

It doesn't matter whether we choose to believe it; cite the evidence to support your claim.

 

[Smurf]

Prove that it isnt, my theory is common sense, when was the last time you heard of a terrorist with an M-16.
We know the US provided arms, We know the terrorists used ak-47s, they may have got them from somewhere else too, but I believe they also got them from the CIA.

 

[Adam]

Ever heard of William Blum? He writes books and essays criticising the US administration, particularly its rather unsavoury activities. His main source of information is the US Library of Congress. He provides sources from the LOC in his work. He constantly checks information released through the FOIA, and includes relevant pieces in his writings. Personally, I think he performs a valuable public service.

You can read some of his material here: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/William_Blum.html

 

[Smurf]

I've never read any of his stuff before, this is golden, thanks!

 

[member 5645]

Ever heard of William Blum? He writes books and essays criticising the US administration, particularly its rather unsavoury activities. His main source of information is the US Library of Congress. He provides sources from the LOC in his work. He constantly checks information released through the FOIA, and includes relevant pieces in his writings. Personally, I think he performs a valuable public service.

You can read some of his material here: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/William_Blum.html

Anything in there showing us buying up Russian small armsand redistributing to Iraq? You guys are so damn unbelievable. You just run off on a tangent when you can't back your on-topic statements.

 

[member 5645]

Prove that it isnt, my theory is common sense, when was the last time you heard of a terrorist with an M-16.
We know the US provided arms, We know the terrorists used ak-47s, they may have got them from somewhere else too, but I believe they also got them from the CIA.

I started to write a long reply to this, but I'm not falling for the trap.
If it's common sense, you can easily find something to back your theory. Until then, try to remember this is a serious forum, not one for spouting unbacked conspiracy

 

[member 5645]

I've never read any of his stuff before, this is golden, thanks!

Golden? Taking pride in this now?

 

[Adam]

Anything in there showing us buying up Russian small armsand redistributing to Iraq? You guys are so damn unbelievable. You just run off on a tangent when you can't back your on-topic statements.

Are you now saying the US Library Of Congress is wrong, and the FOIA releases lies?

 

[Smurf]

"American technology, Russian Technology, All made in Taiwan!"

Where I come from 'Golden' is a slang word used to express great interest or amusment.