Minimum black hole mass to survive fall to event horizon

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the minimum mass of a black hole that allows a person to survive a fall through its event horizon without experiencing lethal tidal forces. The subject area includes concepts from general relativity and gravitational physics, particularly focusing on tidal forces and the Schwarzschild radius.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive a cubic equation based on the difference in gravitational acceleration experienced by a person of a specific height falling towards a black hole. Some participants suggest simplifying assumptions, such as neglecting smaller terms in the equations, to facilitate calculations. Others share their results and discuss the implications of their approximations.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, offering suggestions for simplifying the original poster's approach. Some have reported achieving similar results regarding the minimum mass required, indicating a productive exchange of ideas. However, there is no explicit consensus on the correctness of the original poster's algebra or the final mass value.

Contextual Notes

There are discussions about the assumptions made regarding the height of the person relative to the Schwarzschild radius, as well as the implications of these assumptions on the calculations. The original poster's approach involves specific parameters that may influence the outcome, but these have not been resolved within the discussion.

cepheid
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I'm having no end of trouble with this seemingly simple problem:

Homework Statement



What's the minimum mass of a black hole for which you could survive a fall through the event horizon without being ripped to shreds? Why would you be ripped to shreds for smaller black holes?

Homework Equations



\textbf{F} = -G\frac{mM}{r^2}\hat{\textbf{r}}

R_s = \frac{2GM}{c^2}​
(Schwarzschild radius)

The Attempt at a Solution



Assume person of height h (= 2 m) can survive a tidal stretching force of 5mg over the length of his body (g being the acceleration due to gravity on Earth). Assume further that he is to be just barely surviving when his feet touch the event horizon. Then, the difference between the gravitational acceleration on his head and his feet should be:

\Delta a = -GM\left[\frac{1}{R_s^2} - \frac{1}{(R_s + h)^2} \right] = 5g​

When I try and solve this, I get some cubic equation:

\frac{c^2 h^2}{10g} = R_s^3 + 2R_s^2h + R_s\left[h^2 -c^2 \frac{h}{5g}\right]​

I spoke to other people who said they solved this easily and got something on the order of 104 solar masses as the lower limit. Have I done something wrong with my algebra (or worse yet, with the physics)?
 
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Without checking your math over, what if you assume h«Rs and drop all the small terms in your equation? (Then double check the h«Rs assumption after you calculate the final answer.)
 
Redbelly98 said:
Without checking your math over, what if you assume h«Rs and drop all the small terms in your equation? (Then double check the h«Rs assumption after you calculate the final answer.)

Yes, if you drop h2 terms everywhere, as well as dropping one rh term when it appears added to an r2 term, you get the same expression as you do if you approximate the change in force by:

\Delta F = \frac{dF}{dr} \Delta r​

I got a result of M >= 20 496 solar masses, which corresponds to a Schwarzschild radius of 60 536 km (much greater than two metres!).

Thanks for the tip. Also, I noticed that dropping h2 terms is equivalent to Taylor expanding (r + h)2 to first order.
 
Cool, and I get the same Rs as you. (Didn't check the mass calculation.)
 
I used the following equation for tidal forces-

dg=\frac{2Gm}{r^3}dr

set dg=5g where g is Earth's gravity, r=rs where rs is the Schwarzschild radius (r_s=2Gm/c^2), dr=2 and solved for m, the answer I got was 20,495 sol.
 

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