Kerry and Bush: Who Has the Stronger War Record?

[Gokul43201]

Since this topic has gotten so much attention lately, but any thread has only addressed one side of the story, here's a chance to compare these two related stories.

1) The charges against Kerry's war record
2) The charges against Bush's wartime record

Compare and Contrast...

 

[Gza]

Just to clarify:

2) The charges against Bush's wartime record

There aren't really any charges against his record, since Bush hasn't ever fought in a war.

 

[Gokul43201]

Hence the use of the word 'wartime' instead of 'war'...

 

[JohnDubYa]

First inane shot of the debate is fired by Gza.

 

[Gokul43201]

#2 goes to JW. <I'm just a 'neutral' moderator>

 

[member 5645]

Neither is worthy of political discussion. Neither has anything to do with what each candidate brings to the table today.

Better topic:
1>Kerry's senate record/stated plan for presidency
2>Bush's Presidential record/stated plan for presidency

 

[Gza]

Hence the use of the word 'wartime' instead of 'war'...

whoops. Need to put on my reading glasses .


EDIT:

First inane shot of the debate is fired by Gza.

I find it ironic you should say that.

 

[GENIERE]

Neither is worthy of political discussion. Neither has anything to do with what each candidate brings to the table today.

...1>Kerry's senate record

Fortunately for the country Kerry has only managed to get 8 bills passed over twenty tears! He’s not a Senator he’s a joke. This meager list is all he has to offer. Note two bills were re-enacted the following year.

1. Protect marine animals.
2. Finance marine animal research
3. Re-name a federal building
4. Designate Vietnam Veterans day
5. Designate POW and MIA day
6. Designate POW and MIA day
7. World Population Awareness Week
8. World Population Awareness Week

Forced by Dean, in the debates, to defend his dismal record, Kerry replied in part: “…one of the things that happens in Congress is, you can in fact write a bill, but if you're smart about it, you can get your bill passed on someone else's bill and it doesn't carry your name.”

Good thinking! Nothing to deny, nothing to defend, nothing to admire, nothing to despise, just… nothing!

He is consistent in demeaning this great country and it’s real heroes.

...stated plan for presidency

This seems to be limited to being 'against or for' something on occasion and on other occasions to being 'for and against'.

 

[Dissident Dan]

Forced by Dean, in the debates, to defend his dismal record, Kerry replied in part: “…one of the things that happens in Congress is, you can in fact write a bill, but if you're smart about it, you can get your bill passed on someone else's bill and it doesn't carry your name.”

Good thinking! Nothing to deny, nothing to defend, nothing to admire, nothing to despise, just… nothing!

That is how it works. For example, provisions from one of his bills on money laundering was taken almost verbatum into the Patriot Act. Also, you can't fault John Kerry if there are a bunch of right-wing fools in Congress who won't vote for his bills.

He's also launched important investigations about the CIA using drug money to fund the Contras and about MIAs.

 

[GENIERE]

That is how it works. For example, provisions from one of his bills on money laundering was taken almost verbatum into the Patriot Act. Also, you can't fault John Kerry if there are a bunch of right-wing fools in Congress who won't vote for his bills.

He's also launched important investigations about the CIA using drug money to fund the Contras and about MIAs.

Thanks for the education; I didn’t know it worked like that. It must be something conceived by liberal fools and much too ingenious for me to comprehend. I, falsely, assumed a skilled politician could have legislation enacted despite opposition, kind of the way President Bush does and (shudder) President Clinton did. Stupidly, I was unaware that important investigations of CIA activities have enhanced its ability to collect vital intelligence. I admit to one more failing; I was unaware of Kerry’s most important asset. Deniability!

As to Kerry’s inserting legislation into the Patriot Act:

That ill-conceived piece of legislation is an excellent example of the need for Kerry to hide his activities. It only remained in the bill due to the urgent need to pass anti-terror legislation.. It basically attacks the financial infrastructure of other nations. Many nations, to preserve their infrastructure, will enact counter measures. Rather than prevent money laundering it will make it easier.

As Kerry would say, I may or may not vote for Bush, but on the other hand, I may or may not vote for him.

 

[Gokul43201]

As to Kerry’s inserting legislation into the Patriot Act:

That ill-conceived piece of legislation is an excellent example of the need for Kerry to hide his activities. It only remained in the bill due to the urgent need to pass anti-terror legislation.. It basically attacks the financial infrastructure of other nations. Many nations, to preserve their infrastructure, will enact counter measures. Rather than prevent money laundering it will make it easier.

Geniere, I'm curious about this. Do you have a reference ?

 

[BobG]

Since this topic has gotten so much attention lately, but any thread has only addressed one side of the story, here's a chance to compare these two related stories.

1) The charges against Kerry's war record
2) The charges against Bush's wartime record

Compare and Contrast...

Wow, what a devious, yet thinly veiled trick to shift the topic away from Kerry's Vietnam record to issues more pertinent to the present.

 

[amp]

How hard can it be for Bush to get what he wants in a REPUBLICAN congress?!?

 

[GENIERE]

http://www.jimbovard.com/Patriot%20Act%20vs%20Financial%20Freedom%20article .htm http://www.jimbovard.com/Patriot%20Act%20vs%20Financial%20Freedom%20article .htm Gokul43201 - I can provide many links but there are obviously few liberal sites that address the issue. Liberal sites that do criticize the “money laundering provision” attribute its enactment to President Bush without stating he did his best to keep it out of the Patriot Act. A Libertarian founded the Cato Institute. The libertarian philosophy harbors both liberal and conservative ideals. That said I’ve provided this link to a excellent but lengthy document.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa491.pdf

Or the liberal fantasy:

http://www.jimbovard.com/Patriot Act vs Financial Freedom article.htm

 

[Gokul43201]

Wow, what a devious, yet thinly veiled trick to shift the topic away from Kerry's Vietnam record to issues more pertinent to the present.

What, me ?? Devious ?

 

[Dissident Dan]

Thanks for the education; I didn’t know it worked like that. It must be something conceived by liberal fools and much too ingenious for me to comprehend. I, falsely, assumed a skilled politician could have legislation enacted despite opposition,

Getting your provisions into bills that pass is enacting legislation. Also, as I said before, it can be hard to pass good bills in a Congress full of right-wingers.

I was unaware that important investigations of CIA activities have enhanced its ability to collect vital intelligence.

Pointless, meritless attack.