News Why Did Republicans Close Their Convention With an Evangelical Prayer?

[wasteofo2]

God Damnit, The ****ing Republicans Closed Their Convention With An Evangelit Prayer!

OH MY ****ING GOD! The Republican National Convention just ended with a congressman from Georgia/Evangelist leading a large group prayer about the glory of god and all that crap, GOD DAMNIT, THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR THE ****ING CONSTITUTION AT ALL!

Damn them all to hell...

 

[chroot]

So, who's going to get your vote?

- Warren

 

[wasteofo2]

So, who's going to get your vote?

- Warren

I'm 16, I can't even vote and the Republicans are getting me mad enough to use explicit words on the internet in capitol letters, man those guys are dispicable...

And man, I live in a suburb of New York, maybe an hour away from Madison Square Garden, and I have arrangements to go visit a republican family friend the night Bush's giving his speech when I really want to get down there and protest, ain't that just a kick in the face...

 

[Kerrie]

waste, don't lump all of the republicans together just because of who the president is now...there are many who think bush is an idiot puppet.

 

[wasteofo2]

waste, don't lump all of the republicans together just because of who the president is now...there are many who think bush is an idiot puppet.

It's not just Bush, it's everything they stand for on a national level. It's how the religious nutjobs have a stranglehold on the party, it's how they hate civil rights, it's how Democrats consistantly create more jobs than Republicans and they lie to people to convince them of the opposite, it's how they hate gay people, it's how they think they're so much better than everyone else when the economy constantly suffers under them and people lose welfare and social security under them, it's how Bush's racked up the hugest defecit in the history of the nation and acts like it's a non-issue, it's how they purposely blur patriotism and blind nationalism and have this black and white perspective that doesn't allow dissent to be considered, it's how they have no respect for the environment, it's how they BLATENTLY EXPLOITED 9/11 TONIGHT, it's everything about that damned party on a national scale.

Sure, tons of republicans have traditional, sane, conservative values, and the guys they're playing in prime-time are moderates, but man, those guys are the total anti-thesis of their platform and the administration's beliefs. I hope republicans elect someone like McCain in 2008 and can get back to a Theodore Roosevelt like state of mind.

 

[kat]

LOL, I guess you're just not familiar with the tradition of opening both the Senate and House with a prayer!

 

[wasteofo2]

LOL, I guess you're just not familiar with the tradition of opening both the Senate and House with a prayer!

Man, no I wasn't...

Is it like, silence and people pray to themselves, or is it like a sermon led by someone? Is it a constant thing like "We pray that our nation is always blessed, that peace will spread etc.", or is it a changing thing?

 

[kat]

It's given by the Senate Chaplain. He writes his own stuff...or maybe it's really the word of God...via the Chaplain..I know that some senator's have said.."It's a little like talking to God" but not sure what that's s'posed ta mean... He also prays for a rotating 20 congressmen a day. I believe he passes a card around so that they know which 20 they should pray for...gave out prayer books after Clintons Impeachment...hmmm that's all of the tidbits I can pull off the top of my head. He probably has a website somewhere. The present Chaplain has authored several books, although for the life of me I can't remember his name...

 

[JohnDubYa]

You seriously need to get familiar with the Supreme Court decision in Marsh v. Chambers:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=463&invol=783

Held: The Nebraska Legislature's chaplaincy practice does not violate the Establishment Clause.

Bwahahahaha!

 

[Gokul43201]

What I find interesting is the list of primary speakers : No Tom DeLay, No Don Rumsfeld, No Trent Lott, No Rick Santorum - where is the Conservative Backbone of this party, the real decision-makers...where are they ?

Instead we have : Zel Miller, McCain, Giuliani, Arnie, Bloomberg and Pataki. And Zel Miller is the most conservative guy in that list. The others are all for stronger gun-control. Bloomberg was a Democrat till 2001, when he switched sides to improve his odds of getting voted (the Dem. field was too crowded). Arnie and Guiliani are pro-choice. Pataki calls himself a pro-choicer, though his voting record suggests otherwise. McCain is against tax-cutting, and for increased welfare spending (and is probably making the worst deal ever - hoping for a shot at 2008).

 

[wasteofo2]

You seriously need to get familiar with the Supreme Court decision in Marsh v. Chambers:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=463&invol=783

Bwahahahaha!

I'll get over what some court said, I still think it's wrong, I still think it's arrogant, I still think it's insulting to the billions of people who disagree with them about which religion is true, I think it's especially insulting towards Muslims when they have a muslim woman come on and speak to open up the night, essentially exploiting her and then just shoving it in her face by closing with a christian prayer.

Courts decided Jim Crowe laws were fine for a long time too, until just a few decades ago, inter-racial marriages were still being rulled illegal, courts aren't the ultimate morality compass by any means.

The reason religion has flourished so much in the USA is because it's generally removed from politics. Sure, you know what religion each candidate is, but the way the Republicans are using religion is dangerous. One great way to get people to hate you is to declare "I'm right, you're wrong, and I'm more moral than you". Anyone who believes in a certain religion is by default saying that their religion is the best/the most true etc., but when a whole party becomes soaked with the same type of radicals calling themselves christians the way Republicans have, they're not going to attract many voters of other faiths.

 

[JohnDubYa]

I'll get over what some court said, I still think it's wrong, I still think it's arrogant, I still think it's insulting to the billions of people who disagree with them about which religion is true, I think it's especially insulting towards Muslims when they have a muslim woman come on and speak to open up the night, essentially exploiting her and then just shoving it in her face by closing with a christian prayer.

Oh, I see. Muslim countries adopt the Koran as their standard of law, but WE are the bad guys because we closed our convention with a Christian prayer.

This is the REPUBLICAN convention, not a Legislative meeting. They can do whatever they wish in regards to prayer.

As for Marsh v. Chambers, I guess this proves that not everything will be ruled according to your desires. Believe me, we take it on the chin from the Supreme Court too. Sucks, doesn't it?

The reasoning of the court is stated in Marsh v. Chambers and I think it is quite sound. (Feel free to disagree.) They are essentially saying that long-standing historical traditions sometimes override the petty demands of malcontents.

Every time Conservatives disagree with a Court decision the Left screams "It's the law of the land! It's the law of the land! So take it up with the Supreme Court if you don't like their decision.

 

[JohnDubYa]

Arnie speaks wherever he wants to.

 

[wasteofo2]

Oh, I see. Muslim countries adopt the Koran as their standard of law, but WE are the bad guys because we closed our convention with a Christian prayer.

is the REPUBLICAN convention, not a Legislative meeting. They can do whatever they wish in regards to prayer.

As for Marsh v. Chambers, I guess this proves that This not everything will be ruled according to your desires. Believe me, we take it on the chin from the Supreme Court too. Sucks, doesn't it?

The reasoning of the court is stated in Marsh v. Chambers and I think it is quite sound. (Feel free to disagree.) They are essentially saying that long-standing historical traditions sometimes override the petty demands of malcontents.

Every time Conservatives disagree with a Court decision the Left screams "It's the law of the land! It's the law of the land! So take it up with the Supreme Court if you don't like their decision.

Pardon my high standards, but I feel that perhaps we shouldn't look at countries like Saudi Arabia and Syria, and say that because we're not theocracies like them that anything else we do in regards to religion+government is alright. I hold Republicans to a higher standard than the Saudi royal family, perhaps that's an unreasonable standard...

They certainly proved they can do whatever they want in regards to prayer, and it's made me pissed off at them. Are they TRYING to alienate everyone who isn't a Christian that thinks dogma goes great with government?

Of course not everything will be ruled according to my desires, otherwise we'd have Gore as a president today. When the supreme court rules in a way Republicans don't want, it seems that it's largely things like "Sorry, racial segregation is illegal", or "Nope, you can't indefinately detain prisoners without any acess to lawyers nor any just cause" etc. Sorry if that pisses you off...

 

[JohnDubYa]

Pardon my high standards, but I feel that perhaps we shouldn't look at countries like Saudi Arabia and Syria, and say that because we're not theocracies like them that anything else we do in regards to religion+government is alright. I hold Republicans to a higher standard than the Saudi royal family, perhaps that's an unreasonable standard...

You specifically mentioned Muslims. Given the heavy hand that religion plays in Muslim countries, I don't think Muslims have a lot to complain about a Christian prayer being spoken at a political convention.

Are they TRYING to alienate everyone who isn't a Christian that thinks dogma goes great with government?

Muslims don't vote Republican. Christians do. The Republicans are playing to their audience. Democrats do the same.

When the supreme court rules in a way Republicans don't want, it seems that it's largely things like "Sorry, racial segregation is illegal"...

Oh, cut the crap! Racial segregation predominated in the largely Democrat South.

 

[Gokul43201]

You specifically mentioned Muslims. Given the heavy hand that religion plays in Muslim countries, I don't think Muslims have a lot to complain about a Christian prayer being spoken at a political convention.

So, if John Smith converted to Islam tomorrow, he should thank the Republican party that they're giving him a better deal than what...the Lebanese Govt. ?

Muslims don't vote Republican. Christians do. The Republicans are playing to their audience. Democrats do the same.

Fair enough. And that's really what's it's all about. But it's sending a scary-@$$ message to several moderates who are afraid that GW turns to the Bible, once too often, to help determine policy.

 

[plover]

You specifically mentioned Muslims. Given the heavy hand that religion plays in Muslim countries, I don't think Muslims have a lot to complain about a Christian prayer being spoken at a political convention.

What do Muslim countries have to do with any of this? You make it sound like there are no Muslims born and raised in the U.S. Plus, countries with an explicitly Islamic government are just that: countries with an explicitly Islamic government - there's no reason to expect separation of church and state there, whereas in the U.S. it's a founding principle.

The idea that the U.S. is a "Christian nation" was explicitly rejected by the constitutional convention, and this rejection was reiterated in the Treaty of Tripoli as first enacted under Washington and Adams. And history's most eminent member of the Republican party, Lincoln, was also not a Christian in any meaningful sense. According to his wife: "Mr. Lincoln's maxim and philosophy were: 'What is to be, will be, and no prayers of ours can arrest the decree.' He never joined any Church. He was a religious man always, I think, but was not a technical Christian."

Muslims don't vote Republican. Christians do.

Nope, sorry. Until the current election, many U.S. Muslims did vote Republican. Many Muslim groups endorsed Bush in 2000. In January this year however, a poll of one of these groups, the Muslim Public Affairs Council, found that only 2% still supported Bush. (And can you blame them?)

Also, substantial numbers of U.S. Christians can't stand the current Republican party, and view its actions as a betrayal of Christian principles.

Oh, and libertarian-type Republicans are often quite fervent atheists...

The Republicans are playing to their audience. Democrats do the same.

Panders, all...

Oh, cut the crap! Racial segregation predominated in the largely Democrat South.

Tsk. The views of early to mid 20th century Southern Democrats bear little resemblance to those of the current Democratic party. They simply opposed the Republican party as a legacy of the Civil War. Political parties are not historically static animals. But hey, Lincoln's Republican party was one I could have supported...

 

[russ_watters]

Reality check, wasteofo2: http://chaplain.house.gov/histInfo.html

 

[kat]

What was in the prayer that would be offensive to muslims? or even Jews? Did they mention Jesus Christ or just God? Otherwise the only people it would offend are atheist or agnostics...

 

[amp]

Maybe they are just trying to get back ground that they lost when Kerry said '... I hope we're on God's side as opposed to Bush saying God's on our side (presumtively speaking for God)

 

[kat]

Well...now...

BTW Wasteofo2- I'm glad to see you're so angry at a political party that would dare hold a prayer during their convention. I'm assuming that you would not want to vote for the nominee of such a party?

So, if you could vote would you be planning to vote for Nader?


Or are you going to change your mind when I tell you about The Rev. John B. Ardis, the Catholic priest whom Senator John F. Kerry has chosen to give the benediction at tonight's closing session of the convention

 

[Prometheus]

The Republican National Convention just ended with a congressman from Georgia/Evangelist leading a large group prayer about the glory of god and all that crap

Would you offhand have an Internet citing of the text of this. Else, can you mention some of the highlights that you might remember?

 

[member 5645]

What was in the prayer that would be offensive to muslims? or even Jews? Did they mention Jesus Christ or just God? Otherwise the only people it would offend are atheist or agnostics...

And even then, only atheists and agnostics that are ignorant that most (by up to 99% from what I've read) people on Earth believe in some sort of higher power. They would then have to expect that 99% to bend over for the 1%. And at that point, I don't care what they want.

 

[Prometheus]

most (by up to 99% from what I've read) people on Earth believe in some sort of higher power.

I think that it is that time in life when you need glasses. This is a ridiculous number.

They would then have to expect that 99% to bend over for the 1%. And at that point, I don't care what they want.

Your argument is based on the ridiculous number that you cited. You obviously don't care what anyone wants but yourself.

 

[member 5645]

I think that it is that time in life when you need glasses. This is a ridiculous number.


Your argument is based on the ridiculous number that you cited. You obviously don't care what anyone wants but yourself.

Do you ever try to respond to me with anything to disprove what I've posted.I've read 99%. Prove I didn't. Just because it's a number larger than you expected doesn't make it ridiculous. It makes you ignorant. My FIRST google search pulled this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/wat/archive/wat042400.htm

Overall, the center's survey of surveys confirms that America truly is one nation, under God—or at least Americans say it is. In survey after survey, overwhelming majorities say they believe in God. More than nine in 10 Americans—95 percent—told ABC News polltakers that they believe in God. A Gallup Organization survey for CNN and USA Today last December found much the same thing: Nearly nine in 10—86 percent—said they believed in God, while another 8 percent said they believe in some form of "Universal spirit or higher power."

95% then! OKay! That leaves 5% that are atheist in the USA alone. (do you really want to pull numbers for India, China, or the middle east? Africa, sOuth america. You think they believe in NO higher power?! )
So my statement then says, I don't care if 5% of the population is offended by something so benign as a prayer.

 

[Entropy]

How do they not have respect for the constitution? Its there convention and they can do whatever they want there.

 

[Entropy]

most (by up to 99% from what I've read) people on Earth believe in some sort of higher power.

Actually its 95%. But that's still a lot!

 

[Gokul43201]

Perhaps 95% believe in a higher power, but that's irrelevant to this discussion. Do 95% of the people believe that a prayer to God (asking for what...only Waste knows) is appropriate in a National Political Convention ? That's a more relevant question.

 

[Entropy]

Perhaps 95% believe in a higher power, but that's irrelevant to this discussion. Do 95% of the people believe that a prayer to God (asking for what...only Waste knows) is appropriate in a National Political Convention ? That's a more relevant question.

How do they not have respect for the constitution? Its there convention and they can do whatever they want there.

Is the republican national convention a public or private event? Is it funded by republicans or by the federal government?

 

[member 5645]

Perhaps 95% believe in a higher power, but that's irrelevant to this discussion. Do 95% of the people believe that a prayer to God (asking for what...only Waste knows) is appropriate in a National Political Convention ? That's a more relevant question.

Is it? Did the speech say JESUS, or GOD OF ABRAHAM?
Or did they say GOD?