Integral Suppose f(x)=int(1/t.dt)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of the function defined by the integral \( f(x) = \int_1^x \frac{1}{t} \, dt \). Participants are tasked with showing that \( f(x) + f(y) = f(xy) \) for \( x, y > 0 \) without directly evaluating the integral. The conversation includes various approaches, substitutions, and reasoning related to this integral identity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses frustration with the problem and seeks assistance in demonstrating the identity without evaluating the integral.
  • Another participant suggests that the difference between \( f(x) + f(y) \) and \( f(xy) \) could be a constant, proposing to differentiate both sides to explore this idea.
  • A different approach is presented, where a participant uses a substitution \( s = yt \) to relate the integrals, indicating that the integrals can be expressed in terms of each other.
  • One participant requests clarification and more detailed work from another to better understand their reasoning.
  • A further contribution outlines a necessary step to show that \( f(1/x) = -f(x) \) using a substitution, leading to a derivation that connects \( f(xy) \) with \( f(x) + f(y) \).
  • Another participant acknowledges the cleverness of using substitutions to maintain the form of the integrand while changing the limits of integration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the best approach to demonstrate the identity. Multiple competing views and methods are presented, with some participants questioning the clarity of others' explanations.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the implications of their substitutions and the conditions under which the identities hold. There are unresolved aspects regarding the treatment of constants and the limits of integration.

iceman
Hello everyone, this one might seem easy to you but it's driving me insane.

Q) Suppose f(x)=int(1/t.dt)
where the upper limit=x, lower limit=1 ; for x>0.

Without evaluating the integral show that
for any x,y>0, f(x)+f(y)=f(xy).
where you may consider a substitution s=xt in the left-hand side.

Thanks for your help in advance.
 
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I don't know what you mean by "consider the substitution," but the best I can do anyway is show that the most they differ by is a constant. I at first assumed you didn't want me to differentiate either so I tried separating the integrals (for instance, instead of from 1 to y, I tried 1 to x plus x to y) but I'm not sure that helped.
If you differentiate f(x)+f(y)=f(xy)
you get
1/x*x' + 1/y*y'=1/(xy)(x'y+y'x)=1/x*x'+1/y*y'
where x' and y' are the derivatives of x and y with respect to t.
So since the derivatives are equal, they can only differ by a constant.
To show that C=0, you could pick some values of x and y. I wanted to stay somewhat general, so I picked x=y. It boils down to showing that
2*S(1/t)dt=S(1/t)dt
if the limits on the left are 1 and x
and on the right 1 and x2
 
Last edited:
int(1,x)dt/t=int(y,xy)ds/s, where s=yt.
However, s is dummy. Therefore
int(1,x)dt/t + int(1,y)dt/t = int(1,xy)dt/t
 
mathman, I'd be interested in seeing a little more work (so I can understand what you did), if you don't mind.
 
You will FIRST need to show that f(1/x)= -f(x):
f(1/x)= int (t=1 to 1/x) 1/t dt.

Let u= xt so that t= u/x. Then dt= du/x and 1/t= x/u so that
(1/t) dt= (x/u)du/x= (1/u) du. When t= 1, u= x and when t= 1/x,
u= x(1/x)= 1. The integral becomes int(from u= x to u= 1)(1/u)du
which is -int (from u=1 to u= x)(1/u)du= -f(x).

Now, f(xy)= int (t=1 to xy) 1/t dt.

Let u= t/x so that t= xu. Then dt= xdu and 1/t= 1/(xu) so that
(1/t)dt= (1/(xu))(xdu)= (1/u)du. When t= 1, u= 1/x and when t= xy,
u= y so the integral becomes int (from u= 1/x to y)(1/u)du
= int (from u= 1/x to 1)(1/u)du+ int (from u= 1 to y) (1/u)du
= -int (from u= 1 to 1/x)(1/u)du+ int (from u= 1 to y) (1/u)du
= -(-f(x))+ f(y)= f(x) + f(y).

f(x)= int(from t=1 to t= x)(1/t)dt is actually a fairly standard definition of ln(x).
 
So essentially the idea is to make a substitution for t that will preserve the integrand but change the limits. Very clever.
 

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