Need help with two simple proofs

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around two mathematical statements requiring proofs or counterexamples. The first statement concerns the relationship between real numbers x and y, specifically whether y^x is greater than x when x is greater than 1 and y is greater than 0. The second statement involves divisibility among integers, asserting that if a divides the product bc, then a must divide either b or c. Participants are seeking clarity on proof techniques and the validity of their approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a counterexample for the first statement, showing that for x=2 and y=1/4, y^x is less than x, suggesting the statement is not universally true.
  • Another participant agrees with the counterexample approach but suggests simpler values could have been used.
  • A different participant argues that finding a counterexample does not constitute a proof and questions the validity of the conclusion drawn from the examples provided.
  • There is a suggestion that the second statement about divisibility may relate to the definition of prime numbers, indicating a potential area for exploration.
  • Some participants discuss the terminology used in the original post, debating whether a counterexample can be considered a proof and highlighting the confusion in the usage of the term "proof."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on whether the counterexamples provided constitute valid proofs. There is disagreement regarding the interpretation of proof in the context of the statements discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions and implications of proofs and counterexamples, particularly in relation to the mathematical statements presented. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of proof techniques and the conditions under which a statement can be considered proven or disproven.

eku_girl83
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Here's my problem:
Provide either a proof or a counterexample for each of these statements.
a) For all real numbers x and y, if x is greater than 1 and y is greater than zero, then y^x is greater than x.

My proof:
Suppose x is some real number greater than 1 and y is some real number greater than 0.
Suppose x=2 and y=1/4.
Then y^x=(1/4)^2=1/16 and 1/16=y^x is less than x=2.
Now suppose that x=3 and y=2.
Then y^x=2^3=8 and 8=y^x is greater than x=3.
Hence if x is greater than 1 and 0 less than y less than or equal to 1, then y^x is less than or equal to x.
But if x is greater than 1 and y is greater than 1, then y^x is greater than x.
Therefore the statement "if x is greater than 1 and y is greater than 0, then y^x is greater than x" is not true for all real numbers x and y.

Is this a good proof? How can I improve it or make it clearer?

b) For integers a, b, c, if a divides bc, then either a divides b or a divides c.

I'm not really sure where to go with this one, so hints would be welcome.
I do know that if a divides bc, then bc=ak, where k is a natural number.
Similarly, a divides b means that b=aj and a divides c means that c=ai, where j and i are also natural numbers.
Which proof techinique do I use here? contradiction, contraposition, or direct proof?

Thanks ahead of time,
eku_girl83
 
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your first proof looks solid ..
what u have done is simply give a counter example
u could have chosen some simpler values say,
x=2 and y=0.1 so (0.1)^2 = 0.01 < 2
QED

your second is again a counterexample one,
a = 12 b = 4 and c=6
QED

-- AI
 
1) A proof is something that must be true for all x and y satisfying those constraints.
So ypu've not proven the statement. You have found a counter example. I do'nt understand why after finding a counter example you do something else too.
Your deduction

"But if x is greater than 1 and y is greater than 1, then y^x is greater than x."

based upon those two examples is also not true.

2) do you think it's true? hint that is sometimes used as a definition for what it means fo a to be a prime.
 
if u ask me
a proof is either the one that validates the statement or invalidates it

so i still accept that as a proof.

Usuall such questions are tagged with,
" prove or disprove blah blah blah..."

-- AI
 
It asked for a proof that the statement is true or a counter example.
thus we may take the posters use of the word "proof" to indicate proving it true, when they post a counter example instead. (Ie prove it false), but the usage of the word is poor, and confusing, especially given that after giving a counter example, they then "prove" using one example a false statement.
 

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