New formula for centripital force ? whats wrong

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter ManishR
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Force Formula
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of a formula for centripetal force in circular motion. Participants examine the mathematical expressions involved and seek clarification on potential errors in the derivation process.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster presents a derivation involving variables related to circular motion and expresses uncertainty about the resulting equation.
  • Some participants identify a mistake in the original poster's calculation of the derivative of the unit vector \(\hat{\theta}\), suggesting it should be \(\frac{d\hat{\theta}}{dt} = -\left(\frac{d\theta}{dt}\right)\hat{r}\).
  • Following this correction, participants derive the centripetal force formula as \(\vec{F} = -\frac{mv^2}{r}\hat{r}\), asserting it as the correct expression for centripetal force.
  • A question arises regarding the distinction between the scalar \(r\) and the unit vector \(\hat{r}\), with a participant clarifying that \(r\) represents a magnitude while \(\hat{r}\) is a unit vector.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is disagreement regarding the correctness of the original derivation. Some participants assert that the original poster's approach contains errors, while others focus on clarifying the definitions of the variables involved. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the original poster's understanding of their equation.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not reached a consensus on the original poster's derivation, and there are unresolved aspects regarding the application of derivatives in the context of circular motion.

ManishR
Messages
88
Reaction score
0
new formula for centripetal force ? what's wrong !

consider a circular motion with following variables with usual meanings,
[tex]\vec{r},\vec{F},\overrightarrow{\theta},t,v[/tex]

[tex]v=r\frac{d\theta}{dt}[/tex]

now

[tex]\frac{d\hat{r}}{dt}=(\frac{d\theta}{dt})\hat{\theta}[/tex]

[tex]\Rightarrow\frac{d\hat{r}}{dt}=\frac{v}{r}\hat{\theta}[/tex]

[tex]\Rightarrow\frac{d^{2}\hat{r}}{dt^{2}}=-\frac{v}{r}\hat{r}[/tex]

now according to Newton's law

[tex]m\frac{d^{2}\overrightarrow{r}}{dt^{2}}=\overrightarrow{F}[/tex]

[tex]\Rightarrow mr\frac{d^{2}\hat{r}}{dt^{2}}=\overrightarrow{F}[/tex]

[tex]\Rightarrow-mv\hat{r}=\overrightarrow{F}[/tex]

i am still not sure what actually this equation saying.
can someone recheck it please ? where i gone wrong ?
 
Physics news on Phys.org


You've made a mistake taking [itex]\frac{d\hat{\theta}}{dt}[/itex].

[tex]\frac{d\hat{\theta}}{dt} = -\left(\frac{d\theta}{dt}\right)\hat{r}[/tex]

So

[tex]\frac{d^2\hat{r}}{dt^2} = - \left(\frac{v}{r}\right)^2 \hat{r}[/tex]

And then

[tex]\vec{F} = mr\frac{d^2\hat{r}}{dt^2} = -\frac{mv^2}{r}\hat{r}[/tex]

Which is the correct formula for centripetal force.
 


K^2 said:
You've made a mistake taking [itex]\frac{d\hat{\theta}}{dt}[/itex].

[tex]\frac{d\hat{\theta}}{dt} = -\left(\frac{d\theta}{dt}\right)\hat{r}[/tex]

So

[tex]\frac{d^2\hat{r}}{dt^2} = - \left(\frac{v}{r}\right)^2 \hat{r}[/tex]

And then

[tex]\vec{F} = mr\frac{d^2\hat{r}}{dt^2} = -\frac{mv^2}{r}\hat{r}[/tex]

Which is the correct formula for centripetal force.

thank u so much for ur help.
 


K^2 said:
You've made a mistake taking [itex]\frac{d\hat{\theta}}{dt}[/itex].

[tex]\frac{d\hat{\theta}}{dt} = -\left(\frac{d\theta}{dt}\right)\hat{r}[/tex]

So

[tex]\frac{d^2\hat{r}}{dt^2} = - \left(\frac{v}{r}\right)^2 \hat{r}[/tex]

And then

[tex]\vec{F} = mr\frac{d^2\hat{r}}{dt^2} = -\frac{mv^2}{r}\hat{r}[/tex]

Which is the correct formula for centripetal force.

What is the difference between the two 'r''s? r by itself and r ^?
 


litup said:
What is the difference between the two 'r''s? r by itself and r ^?
r is a magnitude; [itex]\hat{r}[/itex] is a unit vector.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K