Is Every Group with Self-Inverse Elements Abelian?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of groups in abstract algebra, specifically whether a group containing self-inverse elements must be abelian. Participants explore different interpretations of the problem, considering cases where elements satisfy the condition \( x * x = e \) and the implications of this condition.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes to show that if a group \( G \) has an element \( x \) such that \( x * x = e \), then \( G \) is abelian, suggesting a specific approach involving products of elements.
  • Another participant points out that every group contains an identity element \( e \), which also satisfies \( e * e = e \), raising questions about the generality of the original claim.
  • Some participants mention examples of both abelian and non-abelian groups that contain elements where \( x * x = e \), such as multiplication in the rationals and matrix multiplication, indicating that the existence of self-inverse elements does not guarantee abelian structure.
  • A later reply clarifies the distinction between the existence of at least one self-inverse element and the condition that all elements in the group are self-inverse, suggesting that the latter leads to a different conclusion about the group's structure.
  • There is confusion regarding whether the self-inverse element \( x \) can be equal to the identity element \( e \), with participants discussing the implications of this condition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of self-inverse elements in groups, with no consensus reached on whether the original claim holds true. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the conditions under which a group can be classified as abelian based on the presence of self-inverse elements.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of distinguishing between "there exists an \( x \) such that \( x * x = e \)" and "for all \( x \), \( x * x = e \)," which affects the conclusions drawn about the group's properties. There is also ambiguity regarding the role of the identity element in this context.

hedlund
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I want to show that if G is a group where there exists an [tex]x[/tex] which is it's own inverse then G is abelian. Ie [tex]x * x = e[/tex]. I get the hint that let [tex]x = ab[/tex]. So we have abab=e, I'm not sure how to continue from this. But I think I should try something like this

[tex](1) \quad a*abab = a[/tex]
[tex](2) \quad abab*a = a[/tex]
[tex](3) \quad b*abab = b[/tex]
[tex](4) \quad abab*b = b[/tex]

But I'm not sure how to continue ... please give me help but don't spoil it :)
 
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I'm slightly puzzled as all groups contain an idenityt so, every group has an elemnt such that x*x = e, namely e.




I can also think of Abelian and non-Abelian groups that contain elements such that x*x = e were x is not equal to e (for example muplication in the rationals and matrix mutplication).
 
jcsd said:
I'm slightly puzzled as all groups contain an idenityt so, every group has an elemnt such that x*x = e, namely e.




I can also think of Abelian and non-Abelian groups that contain elements such that x*x = e were x is not equal to e (for example muplication in the rationals and matrix mutplication).

Hmm I might have understood it wrong. But it say

Prove that in a group G where [tex]x \ast x = e[/tex] for all [tex]x \in G[/tex] is abelian. Hint: Look at [tex](a \ast b) \ast (a \ast b)[/tex]. Maybe I misunderstood the question ...

Edit: I think I can prove it now, I MUST have misunderstood. We have
[tex]x \ast x = e[/tex] let the x:s be [tex]x_1[/tex] and [tex]x_2[/tex] with [tex]x_1 = x_2[/tex] (Just to make it easier to see the difference).

[tex]x_1 \ast x_2 = e[/tex]
[tex]x_1 \ast x_2 \ast x_2^{-1} = x_2^{-1}[/tex]
[tex]x_1 \ast e = x_2^{-1}[/tex]
[tex]x_2 \ast x_1 = x_2 \ast x_2^{-1}[/tex]
[tex]x_2 \ast x_1 = e[/tex]
And since [tex]x_1 \ast x_2 = x_2 \ast x_1[/tex] the group G must be abelian?
 
Last edited:
Yes, there is a difference between "there exists an x such that x*x = e" (which you said in your first post) and "for all x, x*x = e".

Another hint is to consider (ab)^-1 (there is a formula for that expression in terms of the inverses of a and b).
 
Muzza said:
Yes, there is a difference between "there exists an x such that x*x = e" (which you said in your first post) and "for all x, x*x = e".

Another hint is to consider (ab)^-1 (there is a formula for that expression in terms of the inverses of a and b).

I'm still a little confused tho', does that also implicit that x is not equal to e?
 
I'm still a little confused tho', does that also implicit that x is not equal to e?

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you asking if x^2 = e for all x in G => x != e...? x could of course be e.
 
Muzza said:
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you asking if x^2 = e for all x in G => x != e...? x could of course be e.

Right now, sorry I relaize now, the orginal quetsion wasn't the the question that he wanted answered.
 

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