Which has better fall-back career options, Math or Physics?

diligence

By fall-back career options, I mean non-academic. Assuming a PhD, which field

1) pays more?
2) has the most jobs available?

Thanks!

fss

That's such a general question it's meaningless. Pick one- you'll probably be right.

diligence

Well how bout this then:
Which field has the highest demand in industry?

Ryker

I think the same reply will apply.

diligence

if you say so...though i find it hard to believe that they are equivalent in this respect.

Locrian

Let me offer another obtuse but honest reply: "Whichever one gives you the most marketable skills." Those are two HUGE fields.

Both math and physics have areas of study that are near useless in looking for work almost anywhere. Other areas can make you sought after. Not surprisingly, these often overlap.

The "which pays more" part of the question is unanswerable because you provide no metric for measure. I've gone into detail on why most metrics for that are really, really bad in the past, but I shouldn't have to, because they're pretty obvious.

Locrian

Why? What possible metric are you using to answer both questions? Could it not be that the median values are so close together that they're totally dwarfed by the variance, leaving choosing between them a useless excersize?

kramer733

with a math degree, i guses you could always be a statistician for the government. But with the physics degree, you can go into a masters for engineering.

diligence

i guess my response was more emotional than analytical, but i see your point.

the reason i ask is because i'm having a very difficult time trying to decide whether i want to go to grad school for math or physics, and while i don't plan on leaving academia, i thought an answer to my question might help me decide one way or the other, but apparently it's too general....

twofish-quant

You should plan on leaving academia, and the earlier you realize that you will likely end up in industry the better off you will be.

As far as which to choose, this is a "which do you like the most" question?

Also as far as application to industry, it doesn't work in the way that you think. Employers don't look at your degree and then decide whether to give you a job or not. A lot of job hunting involves making yourself useful regardless of your degree.

One thing I suggest that you do (and I'm serious about this) is while you are getting a Ph.D., take a summer off and do something like work as a telemarketer or work as a used car salesman. If you have some experience in selling stuff, you can combine that with your degree and do something useful with it.

chiro

1) Jobs that pay more usually fall under three categories: 1) Its hard and requires a lot of experience 2) It requires a lot of responsibility 3) No-one wants to do it.

2)

You'll find that anything "applied" is going to have a higher demand. Any applied science like physics, engineering, statistics and so on are good bets.

Simfish

Applied Math, CS, and Statistics generally have the best fallback options. Just make sure to do something that uses a lot of computation, signal processing, or coding differential equation models.

diligence

Yeah, I've heard this a lot, but I've never heard a good explanation for the reasons behind this. For example, is it because only the "best of the best" succeed in academia? Or is it seriously just a crap-shoot whether one succeeds in that realm or not? Is it not sufficient to be more intelligent and hardworking than your average competitor, or are there other factors that come into play? Because if you're just basing this on raw statistics, then I don't really understand your line of reasoning. I mean, isn't it already obvious that only the brightest and hardest working tend to succeed in getting exactly what they want, and that in the realm of academia, you just need to be the VERY best and hardest-working?

Or are there random factors that i'm not considering? The young professors i know never seem to leave the office, and I tend to think that's why they are where they are.

Would you say the same thing to a PhD student in a top 5 grad program?

diligence

well yeah, that's the point, i can't decide which i like the best! ....but i think i'm beginning to realize that, while i find physics more interesting, i actually ENJOY doing mathematics more. So that's why i think it's been hard for me. Because when i think of which is more exciting, it's physics hands down. but then when it's actually time to study, i find the mathematics more enjoyable...

diligence

sweet! so far i love modeling, but i've only been exposed to a very small bit

diligence

i mean , if this is stemming from the whole 1/10 thing, then basically all it takes is being in the 90th percentile? or am i missing something here?

i don't think the likelihood of an individual succeeding in a field has ANYTHING to do with the average statistics of how many succeed. for some, success is guaranteed. for others, it's prohibited. then there's everyone in between, and i guess it's them that you refer to ;)

Ryker

I guess the likelihood of an individual succeeding really doesn't have anything to do with the average statistics of how many succeed per se (although you could argue that if the average rate of success is better, one's chances become better, because there's just more spots to fill up), but the latter does tell you how many people that think the same way as you do are actually rightfully doing so.