Can Two Particles Achieve Perpetual Motion Through Attraction and Repulsion?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of two particles interacting through both attraction and repulsion, exploring the implications for perpetual motion and the laws of physics. Participants examine theoretical scenarios involving forces, mass, and motion, questioning the feasibility of such interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a scenario where two particles attract and repel each other simultaneously, questioning the physics behind this and its implications for perpetual motion.
  • Another suggests that two neutral particles set in motion with the same velocity could achieve a similar outcome, implying a simpler model.
  • A different viewpoint introduces the concept of negative mass, speculating that it could allow for a unique interaction where one particle accelerates toward the other while the second accelerates away, potentially leading to perpetual motion-like behavior.
  • One participant argues that the proposed interaction violates Newton's third law of motion, asserting that such a system is not possible.
  • Another counters that the scenario would not violate thermodynamics due to the absence of friction, suggesting that energy conservation principles may not apply in the same way.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of the proposed interactions, with some supporting the idea of negative mass and others asserting fundamental violations of established physical laws. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully defined the conditions under which their scenarios operate, and assumptions regarding the nature of forces and mass are not universally agreed upon. The implications of thermodynamics and motion are also debated without consensus.

T@P
Messages
274
Reaction score
0
I had an idea which i can't fully realize because i don't know the physics behind it. Here it is: imagine two particles, for example a and b. imagine also that a is attracted to b but b repels a. In this case, both atoms would essentially travel in a straight line forever assuming they repel and attract each other with the same force. what is wrong here? i know this cannot exist because it is a perpetual motion contradiction (there is no perpetual motion). But at the same time, they could go at a constant velocity, that is no acceleration. Can someone explain this to me in greater detail?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Why not just take two particles that are neutral and set them off into space with the same velocity? It would be the same thing.
 
If it could exist, then a negative mass would act as you describe. With mass negative, then acceleration would be in the opposite direction from an applied force.
Example: Take two particles at rest, one with a unit of positive mass and the other with a unit of negative mass. Place a positve charge on one particle and a negative charge on the other, and release. The force on each particle is directed toward the other particle. The positive mass particle accelerates toward the negative mass particle. The negative mass particle acclerates away from the positive mass particle and an accelerating chase begins.

Note that because the net mass of the two particle system is zero, the two particles together can accelerate without an increase in momentum or kinetic energy, so the system speed would eventually approach c. Speculating wildly, this could be the basis for explaining why no one has ever seen any negative mass, because it would be rapidly ejected from regions with a preponderance of positive matter.
 
but it wouldn't violate thermodynamics cause there doesn't need to be friction
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
7K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
3K