Does a Seat Belt Increase Risk of Injury in a Car Crash?

[Da Apprentice]

I'm doing a project for physics involving crashing cars into walls and recording the forces generated... I've heard that a seat belt actually causes most deaths in the instance of a crash... is this true?

Thanks,


"Practice is necessary to improve an athlete’s performance without it, the athlete will never improve and their performance may even decrease"

 

[L2E]

I would doubt it. however if it does cause most deaths in accidents I would bet it prevents more deaths than it causes and that without the seat belt, the people would have died anyway in most cases.

 

[ZapperZ]

I'm doing a project for physics involving crashing cars into walls and recording the forces generated... I've heard that a seat belt actually causes most deaths in the instance of a crash... is this true?

Where did you hear this?

One thing we try to enforce on this forum is that, you need to cite your sources. There is no way for us to know if you read something correctly, if you were reading something out of the ordinary, or if you're reading a crackpot source.

And if you're doing a project, it is time that you pay attention to your sources, because you need to start learning how to cite them when you write your report for your project.

Zz.

 

[AlephZero]

You need to be careful about any argument that uses statistics to prove something.

Consider these numbers (made up by me, just to illustrate the point):

In 100 accidents crashing without a seat belt there were 50 deaths and 50 survivors.

In 100 accidents crashing with a seat belt there were 5 deaths and 95 survivors.

Of those 5 deaths, 4 were caused by injuries caused by the belt.

Conclusion: you have an 80% chance of being killed by your seatbelt, compared with only a 50% chance if you don't wear one.

Spot the obvious miistake here...

 

[Bloodthunder]

Well... air bags cause plenty of injuries, why do they still use them? =)

 

[russ_watters]

Alpha: it is even worse if you only have one set of stats, listing the causes of death by number of deaths. Seat belt usage is getting so high it wouldn't surprise me at all if they were the single greatest "cause" of death.

At least with your example you can calculate how many lives they saved and perhaps even recatagorize "killed" as "failed to save".

 

[schip666!]

Beings as this is a Physics forum...I found this on the first googlepage of "seat belt statistics" Seat Belt Physics:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/seatb2.html

There are a lot of other interesting looking results from that search, once you remove the lawyer-trolling pages.

From experience as a first responder in an area where "rolling-over" seems to be a popular entertainment, I can say that wearing a seat belt (and airbag deployment) greatly reduces our need to transport patients to the hospital, or elsewhere. We often arrive to find the participants wandering around on their own complaining about spilling their drinks. In most cases where a belt was not used outcomes are significantly more negative. The event where "being thrown free of the vehicle" is a win is probably a one-in-a-million thing.

If you are seriously injured by the belt itself you may not have been wearing it correctly -- low over your pelvis and securely across your shoulder -- or else your life would likely have been out the window anyway.

 

[olivermsun]

To the OP: I think it's an interesting project .

The physics of seat belt usage (and non-usage) is worth thinking about and presenting.

And regarding the empirical data: Some of the replies here have already pointed out the "statistical" pitfalls (is it really a statistical problem or an interpretation problem?) of drawing certain kinds of conclusions from data.

Would be interested in hearing where your project goes.

 

[RocketSci5KN]

No idea if your 'stat' is true, but it's clearly misleading. Before seatbelts, the 'greatest cause of death' could have been attributed to the windshield, or the steering wheel, or the pavement, or the car body rolling over you. As the wearing of a seatbelt largely prevents these 'causes of death', it magically becomes the 'cause' of those that do die, even though it saves many, many more people. It's a method of lying while stating a 'truth'...

 

[rollcast]

You need to be careful about any argument that uses statistics to prove something.

Consider these numbers (made up by me, just to illustrate the point):

In 100 accidents crashing without a seat belt there were 50 deaths and 50 survivors.

In 100 accidents crashing with a seat belt there were 5 deaths and 95 survivors.

Of those 5 deaths, 4 were caused by injuries caused by the belt.

Conclusion: you have an 80% chance of being killed by your seatbelt, compared with only a 50% chance if you don't wear one.

Spot the obvious miistake here...

The actual probability is 4%, 80% is out of the number of injured

 

[JaredJames]

I believe that was the point being made.

 

[rollcast]

Damn half my post didn't appear!

This sounds like a classic newspaper story, twisting of facts to make them sound more serious than they are.

Most of the injuries caused by seatbelts are not caused by the belt but improper usage of said belt

 

[Da Apprentice]

"However a seatbelt itself also possesses a threat to occupants. In car crashes the most common cause of death is actually due to a basilar skull fracture caused when the head quickly snaps forward and the body doesn’t. A simple way to remove this danger would be to introduce head restraints as used in professional car racing competitions. Another way to avoid such injuries is ..."

I'm in a rush so i'll attempt to put up the URL this afternoon -

Thanks,


(and sorry i havn't read all the comments).

 

[pallidin]

"However a seatbelt itself also possesses a threat to occupants. In car crashes the most common cause of death is actually due to a basilar skull fracture caused when the head quickly snaps forward and the body doesn’t. A simple way to remove this danger would be to introduce head restraints as used in professional car racing competitions. Another way to avoid such injuries is ..."

I'm in a rush so i'll attempt to put up the URL this afternoon -

Thanks,


(and sorry i havn't read all the comments).

Interesting. Looking forward to the URL.

 

[ZapperZ]

Still no proper citation to sources.

In any case, I'll put out MY source that contradicts such assertion made by the OP. See if you can top this study out of the National Academy of Science:

http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=10832#toc

Zz.

 

[sophiecentaur]

I remember, in the days when seat belts weren't compulsory, I was assured that people without seat belts "tend to be thrown clear"!

 

[turbo]

I remember, in the days when seat belts weren't compulsory, I was assured that people without seat belts "tend to be thrown clear"!

A friend of mine was "thrown clear" in a simple rollover crash. He spends his life in a wheelchair.

When I was a kid there were no seat belts in cars and dashboards were unpadded painted steel. Lots of people died in crashes that would be survivable in todays vehicles, provided the seat belts were used properly.

 

[rollcast]

If I remember correctly most injuries sustained when seat belts were being worn normally where, whiplash/concussion from short acceleration and subsequent deceleration or head injuries when the head and shoulders of the victim are allowed to pivot forward on spine/hips when a seat belt is wore with the higher part of the strap/ slanted one that connects above your shoulder, is worn underneath the arm pit.

 

[Da Apprentice]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15831012
http://tra.sagepub.com/content/7/4/211.abstract

Sorry, these arn't the best sites, i still can't find the one I acctually got the information off. - - - but yes I can see that wearing a seatbelt does save lives, however they do also contirbute to some of the injuries sustained in crashes.

 

[pallidin]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15831012
http://tra.sagepub.com/content/7/4/211.abstract

Sorry, these arn't the best sites, i still can't find the one I acctually got the information off. - - - but yes I can see that wearing a seatbelt does save lives, however they do also contirbute to some of the injuries sustained in crashes.

I would agree.
My personal take(I'm no expert) is that the use of seat belts, though potentially causing injury, does in fact save lives. Especially in roll-over conditions.

Just my meager thoughts... thankfully not through experience.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Many people die during routine surgery. That's no reason to avoid treatment for appendicitis. As Scientists, we have to go along with statistics and avoid too much subjective response.
I think the objections to seat belts are due to a mis-placed reaction against a nanny state and a desire for personal freedom.
There were parallel arguments about freedom to smoke anywhere.
The only bodies that seem to get away with flexing their authoritarian muscles seem to be insurance companies.