Help with Early Welsh & Middle English

Evo

I'm trying to learn Mid Welsh because I am running into it more and more.

I've just started reading "An introduction to early Welsh". http://www.archive.org/stream/introd...age/4/mode/2up

I was wondering if anyone knew of other books that might be better. I don't need to speak it, just read it.

I've also been improving on my Middle English, but the online dictionaries I've found are not complete. And just between different authors you almost need, at times, an author to author dictionary.

Any suggestions?

arildno

Hmm..
What about William Owen's 2-volume dictionary from 1803?
Not sure it's about early Welsh, though..
http://books.google.com/books?q=edit...hl=no&as_brr=1

Evo

Thank you Arildno! I also checked the Google English and the book is not in the same order and the English lacks the table of contents and the alphabet, etc... or it's been placed somewhere else within the book, so your version is much better.

arildno

It seems that William Owen was bent upon "proving" the relatedness of Welsh to the human "mother tongue".
Thus, he is guilty of a number of etymological, grammatical and orthographical errors.
However, according to this biography, the book was the staple work of the 19th century, even after his ideological flaws had been exposed.
So, it must have SOME value, I think.
http://wbo.llgc.org.uk/en/s-PUGH-OWE-1759.html

Evo

I started reading The Mabinogian the other day.

I just found this http://www.mit.edu/people/dfm/canol/index.html

arildno

I read it once in an English translation.
It had a delightfully whimsical and dreamy charm..

wasteofo2

I don't know anything about those languages, but these communities of language learners might be able to help you:

http://forum.wordreference.com/
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/forum/default.asp

Good luck

JaredJames

Welsh? As in from Wales? UK, Wales?

Do people still speak it in real life?

JaredJames

With respect, you want to learn Welsh and to do so you go to the University of Texas?

Not entirely sure what all this "early" and "middle" Welsh is about, but there are plenty of learning resources out there: http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/learnwels...ecourses.shtml

Evo

I want to learn Welsh that was spoken around the 12th to 14th century.

JaredJames

21st century Welsh is dead, I'm curious why you'd want to learn such a thing?

Evo

I'm reading a couple of books which keep referencing tales written in mid-Welsh, and the authors will say it's hard to determine accuracy because this person or this place was called by (long list of weird names) and it's not clear if they are the same person or place. So I am going backwards to read the books that the newer books are basing information on, and trying to get a clearer understanding of the language, since the old words keep popping up.

Latin is dead too, but it's still good to be able to read it. Same with Middle & Old English.

Don't tell me you don't read Welsh.

How did you people make this stuff up? Never hear that "less is more"?

JaredJames

I wish I shared your enthusiasm, but having lived in a country where a dying language exists and is continuously pushed I cannot say I feel the same.

Latin crops up in lots of places, welsh only ever finds its way into things like road signs. All welsh road signs are twice as big to include the translation - go government spending!
I know a few words and phrases, but nothing substantial. Certainly not enough to be useful.

It's only the hardcore Welshies (our equivalent of America's south 'stereotype' - but North and West Wales) that keep using it (teachers excluded).

arildno

Besides, it is possibly still a (very) few adult monoglots around, as evidenced in this message board comment from 2008:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...8120438AA0B7c3

JaredJames

You do find them in the extreme West and North of Wales. But they are rare.

Modern life just doesn't lend itself to only speaking Welsh.

Evo

I don't intend to be able to speak it, just enough to recognize what a word means. I am looking fo some sources of help.

arildno

And possibly, in..Patagonia?