Does chess ability and mathematical ability go hand-in-hand?

battousai

I do not know if this is the correct forum to post this, but I have always wondered if the ability to play chess and mathematical ability go hand-in-hand with each other. A lot of people around me always tell me that. I like playing chess, I don't know if I'm good, but I like playing it. I also like math, not a genius or anything like that, but pretty good at it.

Thoughts?

flyingpig

Your name reminds me of Rurouni Kenshin

Anyways, I think to some degree yeah, but not always.

fluidistic

I do not think so. Maybe a very little but nothing more.
By the way I find it hard to "measure" mathematical ability. You'd also have to use the term "chess ability"because no all mathematicians know how to play chess.
I've seen a game played between Einstein and Oppenheimer (I consider both good at math), yet Oppenheimer looked like a total newbie despite having some knowledge in the opening. If you're interested, you can see the game there: http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1261614.
There's a learning curve in both fields. Being a mathematician doesn't imply you'll start at the end of the learning curve in chess. In the same line, being Kasparov doesn't mean you've the ability to math a mathematician has.

Jack21222

I'd have to say no, not directly, because both are learned skills. Knowing the intricacies of the isolated queen pawn position and being able to do topology have nothing in common. Now, it's quite possible that certain mental characteristics will help the acquisition of knowledge in both mathematics and chess, but there's no way I'd say the two go "hand-in-hand."

KingNothing

There is probably some small correlation.

fluidistic

I agree with you. To some extent. In chess some end game positions depends on how well you can "count" moves. "Will I get my pawn up to queen before my opponent does if I exchange pieces here and there". But this can't be called "mathematical ability" as a well rounded mathematician can have.

battousai

yes, I got it off of RK

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Anyways, I thought about it more, and I would say that chess has more to do with "calculation", more so than "mathematics". Would that make a more accurate statement?

Chi Meson

I also agree here, but it is not a direct link in the brain, not as much as music and math seem to be. I would not be able to personally provide supporting data, that's for sure: I learned chess when I was 6 I have always liked it, and have played it off and on for 40 years now. I decided to "get good at it" twice in my life, once in HS and again just after college. Both times came to no avail. I am simply just "not so good at chess."

I'm not a math genius, but I have a degree in Physics, and I think that some people around here will support the fact that you have to be at least "pretty good" in math to get that far. A direct correlation would suggest that I should be "pretty good" at chess; I am not. My 8 year old son, Simon (MY GOD, HE'S EIGHT!) can just about beat me at it. I appear to be physically missing a critical part in my brain.

rolerbe

I think the correlation exists only in the sense that pattern recognition (PR) does come into play to some degree in symbolic math manipulations. Chess is largely a PR problem, but it is more one specifically of spatial relations (a subset of PR) than just general PR.

Chi Meson

Again, interestingly by this observation, I should be excellent at chess since my spacial mental capacities are evidently the strongest of my abilities (that and running steep downhill trails). Seriously, In a series of tests a group did on me when I was in 6th grade (damn probes) my "spacial" skills were measured in the 99.99 percentile.

Back in the late 80s, when computer chess became ubiquitous, I tried one summer repeatedly playing speed chess against the computer, hoping that my intuition would kick in. Learning the game by numbers and points wasn't working, so I figured I just needed practice to let my head see the myriad possibilities and develop that pattern recognition that master players have. Didn't work. Even when setting the computer to "stupid," I rarely could fight that thing to a tie.

I have come to accept my "condition," even though it is frustrating. I would really like to be good at it.

fluidistic

Interesting case Chi_Meson. May I know how do you think you are at tetris?

Chi Meson

Tetris is so easy. It is exactly the kind of game I could go pro at.

"Professional Tetris Player"
Almost as non-lucrative as "Professional downhill runner."

I like Serena

My own experience mathes Chi Meson's 1-on-1.

I excel at mathematics and physics, but I've never been able to be more than moderate at chess.
And yes, it frustrated me too that I had to set the computer to stupid, just to beat it at chess.

Oh yes, and tetris is easy.;)

fluidistic

Wow guys (Chi Meson and I like Serena).
Have you tried Go?

Dotini

Emanuel Lasker was one of chess's greatest champions, and was also a mathematician.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emanuel_Lasker

Other chess greats have lacked the ability to keep up a checkbook.

I have won some games against a prominent American chess player who later went on to become a perennial candidate for the world chess championship, yet my math abilities are modest at best.

My conclusion is that chess ability is normally distinct from math ability.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

Jimmy Snyder

Given that my math skills are rudimentary and my chess is lousy, I would say that there is a very good correlation.

Chi Meson

When I lived in Portland, OR, 16 years ago, a group of SCARY strange (and smelly) guys took over the cafe tables at Powell's Books once a week for Go tournaments. It scared me permanently from the game. After seeing documentaries on Chess and Scrabble players, this is evidently no different from the obsessed among those games. But too late.

I do enjoy similar games, such as 3-stone and Othello, but I understand that Go has similar strategical complexities as chess. So no disrespect intended.