What are other countries doing that the U.S. should be doing?

GRB 080319B

What policies/actions are other countries implementing to grow their economies that the U.S. could learn from and emulate? Emphasis on fast-growing developing countries, such as China, India and Brazil.

Fixing America's Economy: Nine Global Ideas

Why China Does Capitalism Better Than The U.S.

mege

Those fast-growing countries are also some of the most socially divided in the modern world. I've said this in other threads, but I feel strongly that the US has to be it's own innovator to succeed. We still are a unique country with a unique set of principles, another country's ideas will be hard to apply.

If there are any lessons to be learned, it's that the unbridled socialist programs need to have limits. Sweden is learning that right now and is adapting it's economy towards a freer system. While they still lean predominately to the left with their public companies being 50%of their GDP (down from 70%ish 2 decades ago), they're cautiously shrinking their public share in the economy in favor of private enterprise. In the US, we're lucky that the general populace has such a high matter of wealth that the inching fees and taxes don't effect us as much as some of the more tightly budgeted Eurpoean familys (though that perception is changing).

Ryumast3r

Yeah... well, there is the fact that China is still a developing country. Growth in companies and countries is not linear, nor is it exponential. It's more logarithmic in nature (once you start the growth anyway). It grows very quickly at the beginning, then slows down as there is less to improve.

Also, China is in a HUGE bubble right now. They've built entire cities (one I read was capable of housing several million people) on speculation alone (read: only a couple thousand live there, and nobody is buying except investors).

I don't know as much about India or Brazil, but those are also developing and I assume the same rules apply to them.

Proton Soup

if you're brasil, you rape the environment to grow soya and cut timber. china, you force developers to build housing no one can afford, and shopping malls where there are no shops. india, you find rich western countries you can provide call center services to.

it's been a long time since the US could enjoy the wild growth that comes from stealing the natives' land and exploiting the natural resources. but maybe we could building bridges to nowhere until we're poor enough to be a call-center to OPEC nations.

seriously tho, in many ways, it's a lot easier to build something from nothing, than to maintain growth forever.

Zarqon

Why do you consider it a good thing to have such a growth?

It's obvious that some elements of the society cannot continue to grow as they have in the past, for example the population growth will stop fairly shortly. And since some parts of society will stop growing, why shouldn't it be possible for the the growth of the overall GDP to also slow down while still maintaining a healthy society?

If the US right now had the growth that china/brazil does I would be scared.

mege

What evidence do you have that population growth will stop in the US? While the birthrate is starting to level off at a sustainable level, we still have a significant ammount of immigration.

aquitaine

China most certainly does not do capitalism better than America. Although one thing that the US does need is somewhat less restrictive property rights laws, at this point it's almost impossible to build anything anywhere because there's always one or two holdouts. Of course that was something of a generalization, but there is a point.

Ryumast3r

I think they meant in general. There are still a lot of countries with huge amounts of growth, but all of Europe has pretty much stalled, Canada and the USA have all but stalled, China's going to stall in a few years (population ratio in kids of like 6 boys to 1 girl is not going to sustain a population), etc. As countries become developed the birth-rate stalls, and slowly but surely countries are getting there.

loseyourname

This is like asking how a 22 year-old can be more like a 2-year old and the answer is he can't. Our challenge is to not become completely stagnant or even worse to collapse, but we're never going to see 10% annual GDP growth unless it's a recovery following a collapse.

Al68

Because a higher standard of living is better than a lower one.Because maintaining the current standard of living means foregoing a higher one. What if we had maintained an 1850 standard of living instead of improving it through economic growth? What dramatic improvements will our grandchildren and their grandchildren miss out on if we become stagnant?

What are we missing out on today because of bad economic policies of the past? A society so rich that food is essentially free? That electricity and clean water are too cheap to meter? That only sounds crazy to those who are unaware of how difficult (expensive) such things were to obtain in the past. The things we take for granted today didn't exist, or only existed for the privileged few, only a few decades ago. The poorest of Americans today live better than 99.9999% of humans that ever lived because of sustained economic growth. We shouldn't even joke about it not being important.

Ryumast3r

Again, it is impossible to expect 10% GDP growth in the US every year for... basically ever. We're all saying that we should strive to grow, and should work hard for it because of the improvements that WILL be made if we do, but 10% a year (with the exception of recovery periods) is nigh impossible. Nothing can grow infinitely and keep growing infinitely and at such a rapid pace, it's just not stable.

mege

While 10% GDP growth is quite a mark to hit in a year (it's happened), it's importaint to remember that if the economy isn't growing, it's shrinking. Is it better to have consistent small growth? or is it better to have a near equilibrium economy with potential for shrinkage?

Al68

I agree, and never said otherwise. A 10% (overall) growth rate every year is, as you say, not a realistic expectation for a large population.

Zarqon

Well, during the last century we had an exponential population growth. If that would continue it would only be a matter of a couple of hundred years to get to a population density higher than 1 person per square meter land area, which is obviously impossible. I don't know whether it will stop increasing in 20 years or 50 years, but it will stop, and I think it will happen on the time scale that even persons alive today will see it.

I'm not talking about stopping improving our living standards, but that is not the same thing as having a GDP that increases significantly slower than during the last century.

An example: I consider it a quality of life to be able to do a lot of freetime/recreational activities (as opposed to work). In a better and improved future I see the average person having more free time, with less work (over-)time. Of course, decreasing the time spent working means decreasing the total amount of production (thus decreasing the GDP) but this is not necessarily bad for the quality of life/living standards!

jsgruszynski

Strictly it's logistic. Exponentially rising at the "start", then slows and then exponentially asymptotic to a limit. Peak Oil curves, Technology Adoption curves, etc. all logistic.

WhoWee

Labor costs are lower in those countries.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/us...-china/737387/

Ryumast3r

That's what I meant. Thank you. It was late and I knew something was wrong just couldn't think of what. :P