Register to reply

How much does the national debt cost us?

by moejoe15
Tags: debt, national
Share this thread:
moejoe15
#1
Aug15-11, 04:41 PM
P: 39
I would like to know how much of my tax dollar goes towards paying interest on the national debt.

Specifically, I suspect that my taxes would go down significantly if we had no debt or interest to pay on it and I would like to know how much.

Everyone talks about lowering taxes yet not one person has mentioned this. If what I suspect is true why isn't every American screaming at our politicians to not just balance the budget but pay off the debt and remove that tax burden from us instead of making it worse every day? Balancing the budget is the tip of the iceberg and the Titanic is still heading towards it.
Phys.Org News Partner Science news on Phys.org
Bees able to spot which flowers offer best rewards before landing
Classic Lewis Carroll character inspires new ecological model
When cooperation counts: Researchers find sperm benefit from grouping together in mice
Pengwuino
#2
Aug15-11, 05:15 PM
PF Gold
Pengwuino's Avatar
P: 7,120
We have something like $15 trillion worth of debt, equal to the entire GDP of the country. Uhm... how do you propose we just pay it off like that?
WhoWee
#3
Aug15-11, 05:41 PM
P: 1,123
Are we counting unfunded liabilities - just saw a report we would need an additional $46Trillion invested at today's Treasury rate to cover the benefits in Social Security and Medicare that have been promised?

moejoe15
#4
Aug15-11, 05:49 PM
P: 39
How much does the national debt cost us?

Quote Quote by Pengwuino View Post
We have something like $15 trillion worth of debt, equal to the entire GDP of the country. Uhm... how do you propose we just pay it off like that?
I didn't propose 'paying it off like that'. I am proposing that we are NOT paying it down and nothing in the new debt deal is paying it down and nothing in any upcoming deal is going to pay it down. I am proposing that the best way to cut our taxes IS to pay it down, not cut social spending. Balancing the budget is putting a bandaid on a sucking wound.

I personally like Ron Paul's ideas. I don't want to kill medicare or social security to do this. [OT moved]
skeptic2
#5
Aug15-11, 07:08 PM
P: 1,803
Quote Quote by moejoe15 View Post
I would like to know how much of my tax dollar goes towards paying interest on the national debt.

Specifically, I suspect that my taxes would go down significantly if we had no debt or interest to pay on it and I would like to know how much.

Everyone talks about lowering taxes yet not one person has mentioned this. If what I suspect is true why isn't every American screaming at our politicians to not just balance the budget but pay off the debt and remove that tax burden from us instead of making it worse every day? Balancing the budget is the tip of the iceberg and the Titanic is still heading towards it.
I suspect the answer isn't nearly as simple as you make it sound. Just as a small business owner may borrow money to double the size of his plant, the U.S. may borrow money that ultimately increases production and puts more people to work, increasing revenue. Though it may be relatively easy to calculate how much we've paid in interest on the money we've borrowed, whether we'd be paying lower taxes now if we'd never borrowed the money is a much more difficult question.
apeiron
#6
Aug15-11, 09:02 PM
PF Gold
apeiron's Avatar
P: 2,432
Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
On the other hand, they might have bombed us back to the Stoneage - if we didn't Defend ourselves?
Love it. When faced with thoughtful fact, thoughtless rhetoric always trumps.
SteveL27
#7
Aug15-11, 09:14 PM
P: 800
Quote Quote by moejoe15 View Post
I would like to know how much of my tax dollar goes towards paying interest on the national debt.

Specifically, I suspect that my taxes would go down significantly if we had no debt or interest to pay on it and I would like to know how much.

Everyone talks about lowering taxes yet not one person has mentioned this. If what I suspect is true why isn't every American screaming at our politicians to not just balance the budget but pay off the debt and remove that tax burden from us instead of making it worse every day? Balancing the budget is the tip of the iceberg and the Titanic is still heading towards it.
$412 bilion. http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/r...ir_expense.htm

Not a bad deal, really. You can run three major and several minor wars, promise everyone great retirement and medical benefits, and never have to pay for any of it. And the Fed has just announced it's going to keep real interest rates effectively at zero for the next two years. And they can print all the dollars the government needs. What's not to like?
Ivan Seeking
#8
Aug15-11, 10:00 PM
Emeritus
Sci Advisor
PF Gold
Ivan Seeking's Avatar
P: 12,498
Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
Are we counting unfunded liabilities - just saw a report we would need an additional $46Trillion invested at today's Treasury rate to cover the benefits in Social Security and Medicare that have been promised?
Over what, the next fifty years?
WhoWee
#9
Aug15-11, 10:07 PM
P: 1,123
Quote Quote by Ivan Seeking View Post
Over what, the next fifty years?
Well now, if we can talk about spending cuts over 10 to 12 years - why shouldn't we talk about unfunded liabilities over the long term - the unfunded amount now is less than the unfunded amount later (if we don't address the issue currently).

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...to-tax-reform/
"The federal government spent $1.7 trillion last year more than it brought in tax revenue. It had to borrow that amount. This increased the outstanding public debt to $14.2 trillion - or 96 percent of GDP. This includes that part owned by the Social Security trust fund and the Federal Reserve, but does not include the unfunded liabilities of Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security, which will add an additional $46 trillion to the deficit in present-value terms over the next 75 years.

This is not sustainable. Without spending cuts and/or tax increases, this amount will not only continue growing without end but will increase as a share of GDP until bondholders no longer trust the governments ability to pay the interest required. At that point, they will dump U.S. Treasuries."


--------------

Another view:
http://forwhatisright.com/2011/02/23...lement-reform/
"It is important to understand that the Federal government reports only a tiny portion of actual debt when evaluating its fiscal position. As it is, the government reports a measure known as Total Public Debt Outstanding, which consists of debt held by non-U.S. government actors (including other countries) and intra-governmental holdings (debt incurred by borrowing from the trust funds that provide for entitlements). This number stands at $14.13 trillion as of February 16, 2011.[2] Currently, the numbers break down to $9.5 trillion owed to individuals and foreign nations, and $4.6 trillion that the government owes itself to fund entitlements. Assuming Obamacare assumptions are valid, the debt is predicted to balloon to $18 trillion by 2021.[3]

As noted, this is a small part of what is actually needed to meet Federal obligations. The various entitlement programs are all expected to exhaust their trust funds as obligations increase. In fact, total present value of these unfunded future social insurance obligations is approximately $46 trillion.[4] That is, this is the total amount that would have to be set aside now to pay for these programs in the future. This is in addition to the taxes currently used to fill the programsí trust funds, such as the FICA tax and Medicare tax withheld from paychecks. This means that these programs would have to be funded with new taxes and borrowing. When added to the current debt explicitly held by the government, total liabilities approach $62 trillion.[5] Put in perspective, this is over $200,000 in debt owed by every American."
apeiron
#10
Aug15-11, 10:52 PM
PF Gold
apeiron's Avatar
P: 2,432
Quote Quote by WhoWee View Post
Well now, if we can talk about spending cuts over 10 to 12 years - why shouldn't we talk about unfunded liabilities over the long term - the unfunded amount now is less than the unfunded amount later (if we don't address the issue currently).
Talking about unfunded liabilities, what is the figure for US military commitments?

I don't mean just the military pension schemes that are about 5.4% of Federal debt but the future cost of various invasions and adventures to be expected over the next decade or so?
WhoWee
#11
Aug16-11, 08:32 AM
P: 1,123
Quote Quote by apeiron View Post
Talking about unfunded liabilities, what is the figure for US military commitments?

I don't mean just the military pension schemes that are about 5.4% of Federal debt but the future cost of various invasions and adventures to be expected over the next decade or so?
My personal crystal ball isn't working - can't even figure out how much President Obama is spending in Africa currently or the future cost of US "contractors" after the big troop pull-out?
skippy1729
#12
Aug16-11, 12:54 PM
P: 148
I hope that this is not too far off topic.

Can anyone direct me to the actual text of the debt limit bill that was passed and signed earlier this month? I can't figure out exactly what they have done from news sources so I guess I am going to have to read it.

Thanks, Skippy

PS I tried http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_Control_Act_of_2011 which had links to the bill that returned messages "document not available".

PPS Nevermind. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-1...112s365eah.pdf
Char. Limit
#13
Aug16-11, 02:26 PM
PF Gold
Char. Limit's Avatar
P: 1,945
This thread makes me lol. It's strawman vs. ad hominem in an epic war to the death!
mheslep
#14
Aug16-11, 05:17 PM
PF Gold
P: 3,081
Quote Quote by moejoe15 View Post

I personally like Ron Paul's ideas. I don't want to kill medicare or social security to do this.
Maybe you don't but Paul does.
Reject the Welfare/Warfare State
WhoWee
#15
Aug16-11, 05:52 PM
P: 1,123
Quote Quote by moejoe15 View Post
You don't like me calling it offense? Was Viet Nam defensive? Was Nicaragua defensive? Is Iraq defensive? Is Afghanistan still defensive? Was Grenada defensive? Was Korea defensive? Other than a few rag heads attacking us, no country has attacked us since WWII. I must be forgetting something, maybe you can refresh my memory on which country it was that attacked us thus activating our 'defenses'.

Here is a list of our military 'interventions' which you would also call defensive I suppose:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_Wars

Pretty darn active for defense isn't it?
I think it might be best if a veteran of one of these conflicts responds to you.
russ_watters
#16
Aug17-11, 07:03 AM
Mentor
P: 22,244
Quote Quote by Char. Limit View Post
This thread makes me lol. It's strawman vs. ad hominem in an epic war to the death!
And for all the bickering, no one has yet answered the OP's question!
drankin
#17
Aug17-11, 01:27 PM
drankin's Avatar
P: 175
Quote Quote by RudedawgCDN View Post
Which is great - I mean really as a Canadian I hope you guys spend yourselfs into poverity, it certainly makes my trips down to the US cheaper as your dollar tanks. My home is worth twice as much as it's US counterpart.
Better hope not. Canada and the rest of the world economy will go down with the ship.
mheslep
#18
Aug17-11, 01:54 PM
PF Gold
P: 3,081
Quote Quote by russ_watters View Post
And for all the bickering, no one has yet answered the OP's question!
Good point.

Quote Quote by CBO
...The amounts of net interest shown in the budget include interest paid on all Treasury securities ($413 billion in 2010), minus the portion of that interest that is received by trust funds ($186 billion in 2010) and the net amount of other interest received by the government ($30 billion in 2010).
That is, the federal government pays itself $216B in interest and $197B of 'net' interest outside the government, i.e. to the US public, Chinese, etc.
http://www.cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=11999

On the current spending plan the net interest will increase to ~$800B by 2020.


Register to reply

Related Discussions
National Debt: Bush vs. Obama Current Events 71
When we talk about national debt... Current Events 16
National Debt. :surprised Current Events 9
The US National Debt Current Events 33
Who profits from the US national debt? Current Events 38