What is the role of EMSFT in predicting photon chemistry?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the role of the EM self-field model (EMSFT) in predicting photon chemistry, exploring its implications in biological contexts such as cell cycles and biochemical processes. Participants examine the theoretical underpinnings of EMSFT, its application to photon structure, and its potential relevance to biological phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe the EMSFT as a model where photons consist of sub-particles (phectron and phroton) that may have implications for understanding photon chemistry and energy states.
  • Others express skepticism about the speculative nature of the claims made regarding photon mass and its relevance in low-energy biological environments.
  • A participant argues that the EMSFT could be viewed as a numerical method that addresses real-world biological problems rather than a challenge to established physics.
  • Some contributions highlight the dynamic balance of energy within cells and the role of photon chemistry in signaling processes, drawing parallels to atomic behavior.
  • There is a mention of the potential for photons to disrupt DNA bonds through oscillating fields, particularly in the context of cancerous cells.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of skepticism and interest regarding the speculative aspects of EMSFT and its implications for photon chemistry. There is no consensus on the validity of the claims made, and multiple competing views remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some arguments rely on assumptions about the nature of photons and their mass, which are not universally accepted. The discussion also touches on the limitations of classical electromagnetic theory in explaining certain biological phenomena.

tfleming
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Abstract: The internal structure of the photon can be described via the EM self-field model (EMSFT) [Fleming and Colorio 2004] (www.biophotonicsresearchinstitute.com) whereby the ordinary photon consists of two sub-particles of equal mass and opposite charge in dynamic equilibrium with each other. The sub-photonic particles are termed the phectron and the phroton, corresponding to the electron and proton of the hydrogen atom. As in the application of EMSFT to the hydrogen atom, the mathematical description of the photon has degrees of freedom associated with the electric (E-) and magnetic (H-) fields, the electric permittivity, ε, and the magnetic permeability, μ, of a region. Since there are two fields per sub-particle (E- and H-fields), there are six degrees of freedom altogether. EMSFT provides eigensolutions for the simple photon and its compounds. Analogous to the spectroscopy of the hydrogen atom, the simple photon can exist in a range of energy states that depend on the motions of the phectron and phroton. Analogous to atomic chemistry, the photon exists as compounds wherein the various sub-photonic structures assume distinct entities. These compounds correspond to the bosons and gluons that mediate the EM, weak and strong nuclear forces known to physics. In regions where gluons exist, the equations controlling the fields are a modified version of Maxwell’s two curl and two divergence equations. For the strong force there are three curl and three divergence equations, there being a new type of field herein termed the nuclear field that depends upon compounded triplets of the phectron and phroton. There is evidence for a photonic chemistry found in nature, including the layered spherical structure of the ionosphere, the various snowflake structures, and hydration structures found in and around DNA and other important biological proteins. It appears that a photonic chemistry may be similarly involved in energy/temperature dependent processes such as the cell cycle.
 
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Who do we contact about "overly speculative posts"? I think we've got a prime example here...
 
And who do we contact about overly quick critique??
 
The thing about quantum field theories is that they hinge on tenets such as photon = zero rest mass; well that's ok iff you're dealing with atomic or nuclear collisions, but when you HAVE to deal with energies with some degree of subtlety i.e. bioenergy, cell cycles, etc, then you begin to see how the photon may well have a small mass; see Jackson R.D. 2000 and his comments on the limits of classical EM via the higher limit on the mass of the photon. The abstract above gives some examples which are otherwise unexplained other than non-zero photon mass; I DO hope we're not locked in the 'cage' of QFT together here;; I'm certainly not! LOL
 
Try the red, white, and black triangle shaped thingy at the bottom left corner of the post.
 
i take it that "little red thingy" is baaaaad huh? sooooo, field theory by subjective critique! just what the world needs! read my journal lads, and see what this is all about! and stop wearing your underpants backwards. and learn by looking outside the box, and not rooting through your old lecture notes. Maths is subservient to the physics it is employed by, NOT the other way round; go and play chess somewhere else; this is applied maths/physics!
 
If someone was reporting a small photon mass in a high energy physics experiment, I'd be extremely skeptical, but not nearly as skeptical as I am about a claim that a photon mass would show up in a low energy environment like biological chemistry.

That's going "over the top", in my opinion, anyway. We'll see what the moderators think, I've never done the "complain about overly speculative posts" thing before.
 
try to think of this (EMSFT) as a numerical method, then you won't be tempted to think of it as a 'challenge' to the 'reality' of your own precepts. Then the photon's substructure solves a number of real-world problems! we're not talking about cosmology but biology here!
 
ok, now I've got your attention, you're in MY domain here when you talk about biochemistry!

Inside cells AND outside, there's a dynamic balance occurring. This
balance occurs on different time levels; there's an overall cell energy
dictated by the integrity of the tissue, and then there's an 'as needed'
signalling basis in which the photon's chemistry plays its part via the
ionic concentrations that flow through the membrane. There are two
rotations that can occur just like EMSFT and these can occur via dipolar
structures imbedded in the plasma membrane.

This double rotation is analogous to those of the electron in a hydrogen
atom. It causes a dynamic equilibrium to be established between a
particular cell and a tissue of cells. WHenever the dynamic equilibrium
requires it, the overall tissue can concentrate its energy on areas where
say motosis or apoptosis is required.

In neurons, the ca2+ signals directly to the DNA; the process is similar
to the way photons are emitted from atoms. The light is emitted in
discrete quantities of energy (h*nu) depending on the spectroscopy of the
particular atom, in this case ca2+. This is an EM signal no more no less
that is able to permeate inside the cell; it is NOT an electrostatic field
, but an oscillating field that can disrupt as it were some specific bond
of the DNA at its centre.

This is exactly how the cancerous cell can be disrupted (see url below).

http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/64/9/3288
 
  • #10
the signal is from the FIELD of the ca2+ and NOT from the nucleons or electron!
 

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