Friction & Stopping: 18-Wheeler vs. Small Car On Thruway

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the stopping distances of an 18-wheeler and a small car when both are traveling at the same speed and have the same coefficients of friction. Participants explore the implications of mass, friction, and tire contact area on stopping distances, questioning the validity of a physics teacher's claim that both vehicles would stop in the same distance.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant cites their teacher's claim that both vehicles would stop in the same distance due to equal coefficients of friction and the compensatory effect of the truck's weight.
  • Another participant agrees that if the coefficient of friction is the same, both vehicles would have the same acceleration, as friction is proportional to mass.
  • However, a different participant challenges this by introducing the concept of tire contact patch area, suggesting that differences in weight per square inch could affect stopping distances.
  • Another participant acknowledges the simplification in the previous arguments, stating that acceleration does not depend on weight per square inch of tire contact.
  • One participant expresses awareness of the oversimplification in their earlier comments, indicating a desire for a straightforward answer.
  • A later reply emphasizes that real-world factors, such as brake pressure and heat generation in tires, complicate the situation, suggesting that larger vehicles may indeed have longer stopping distances in practice.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus. While some agree on the theoretical aspects of friction and acceleration, others introduce factors that could lead to differing stopping distances, indicating ongoing debate and uncertainty.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include assumptions about uniform coefficients of friction and tire contact area, as well as the neglect of real-world factors such as brake performance and tire heat effects.

kreil
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My physics teacher told us today that if an 18-wheeler and a small car, both traveling at 30 m/s, and with equal brand tires (thus the same coefficients of friction) were to lock their brakes while on the thruway, they would both take the same distance to stop. He said that the although it takes more energy to stop the truck, the truck compensates for it by producing more friction from its massive weight.

His explanation makes sense to me, but it goes against my intuition. Is his statement really true?
 
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Assuming the coefficient of friction is the same, then both truck and car would have the same acceleration. The only horizontal force acting on each is friction, which is proportional to the mass ([itex]F = \mu m g[/itex]), thus the acceleration of each is the same: [itex]a = F/m = \mu g[/itex], independent of the mass.
 
That is too generalized. Assuming that the weight per square inch of tire contact patch was equal then yes it works out. But if the car has (arbitrary numbers) 1 square foot of contact patch and weighs 3000lbs (thats 3K/Sqfoot) and the semi has 6 square feet but weighs 20,000 lbs (thats 3300 lbs/squarfoot) then it would stop slower and longer. and if the semi was unloaded and weighed only 8,ooo lbs it still has the same contact patch... but assuming the weight per sQ foot of tire contact was equal then it sounds about right to me, in a VERY dumbed down way.
 
Assuming an admittedly simplified model of friction, the acceleration does not depend on the weight per square inch.
 
Yes, I realize it is over-simplified, I did this on purpose because I just wanted a quick simple answer.

Thanks!
 
Doc Al said:
Assuming the coefficient of friction is the same, then both truck and car would have the same acceleration. The only horizontal force acting on each is friction, which is proportional to the mass ([itex]F = \mu m g[/itex]), thus the acceleration of each is the same: [itex]a = F/m = \mu g[/itex], independent of the mass.
This is absolutely correct. There are however, other real world consideration. Locking up the wheels on a fully loaded 18 wheeler is going to take much greater brake pressure than say a bicycle, which means a big rig is going to roll farther than a bicycle before it locks up. Another problem is heat. The tires of a heavy truck heat up much faster than a light vehicle. When a tire gets too hot [which happens pretty quick in a high speed skid], the coefficient of friction starts dropping - especially when the tires start melting. So yeah, in the real world, the intuition that big truck = greater stopping distance is a good rule to live by.
 

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