How can we attract students to study mathematics at university?


by matqkks
Tags: maths, student, university
matqkks
matqkks is offline
#1
Oct15-11, 09:01 AM
P: 150
How can we attract students to study mathematics at university?
Phys.Org News Partner Mathematics news on Phys.org
Hyperbolic homogeneous polynomials, oh my!
Researchers help Boston Marathon organizers plan for 2014 race
'Math detective' analyzes odds for suspicious lottery wins
Jamma
Jamma is offline
#2
Oct16-11, 02:43 PM
P: 429
Tell them they can get rich doing it?

Nah, I'm kidding. I think the problem is the curriculum. Mathematics is an amazingly fascinating subject, but ask almost anyone in the UK (even university students who don't do maths) and it's VERY likely they will say that they hate maths/can't do maths. I think this is usually a mix of people having very bad teachers and learning very boring mathematics.

When I tell people that I do maths, they say "oh, so you must be good with really large numbers and arithmetic". This is so telling. It seems the curriculum is designed to try and teach kids as much "useful" mathematics as they can- to teach them to enter numbers into an algorithm and get results. They don't care so much whether or not the students actually know what they are doing, we are almost teaching kids to be mini calculators. What we should be doing is teaching kids interesting mathematics that will allow them to be able to easily learn these sort of skills on their own without forcing them to have to know how to compute a student t-test, for example.

So the answer is simple- expose children to interesting mathematics! (and possibly make them do more of it)
maggiemaeu
maggiemaeu is offline
#3
Oct16-11, 02:56 PM
P: 9
Quote Quote by Jamma View Post
Tell them they can get rich doing it?

Nah, I'm kidding. I think the problem is the curriculum. Mathematics is an amazingly fascinating subject, but ask almost anyone in the UK (even university students who don't do maths) and it's VERY likely they will say that they hate maths/can't do maths. I think this is usually a mix of people having very bad teachers and learning very boring mathematics.

When I tell people that I do maths, they say "oh, so you must be good with really large numbers and arithmetic". This is so telling. It seems the curriculum is designed to try and teach kids as much "useful" mathematics as they can- to teach them to enter numbers into an algorithm and get results. They don't care so much whether or not the students actually know what they are doing, we are almost teaching kids to be mini calculators. What we should be doing is teaching kids interesting mathematics that will allow them to be able to easily learn these sort of skills on their own without forcing them to have to know how to compute a student t-test, for example.

So the answer is simple- expose children to interesting mathematics! (and possibly make them do more of it)
i definitely agree with you on the fact that kids are being taught boring things. i am a tenth grader still in highschool, and although i am greatly concerned about my grades and knowledge, i don't like what i learn. in my opinion, you shouldn't need contrapositives to understand a sentence when you have logic and reasoning. young people who would even consider studying math on a college level should be able to understand simple things like "if it rains, i will not go swimming." it is quite obvious that as long as this is true, you can say it differently and have the same meaning without using symbols and truth values. logic, people.

Jamma
Jamma is offline
#4
Oct16-11, 05:18 PM
P: 429

How can we attract students to study mathematics at university?


You learn logic before you go to university? We don't in the UK- I think getting kids able to manipulate logical statements would be very beneficial actually. It doesn't take long to teach what the contrapositive of a statement is, and even when I saw this for the first time at university I found it rather illuminating.

I think that a fundamental understanding of how logical proofs work and should be formed is something that everyone should learn at some point, even if they aren't thinking about going into maths- one of my most hated things about society is that people can think they are making a good argument and be talking absolute gibberish! I know that a knowledge of logic wouldn't solve this, but getting people to think about what does and doesn't count for a logical deduction, I feel, would be amazingly beneficial.
maggiemaeu
maggiemaeu is offline
#5
Oct17-11, 04:59 PM
P: 9
Quote Quote by Jamma View Post
You learn logic before you go to university? We don't in the UK- I think getting kids able to manipulate logical statements would be very beneficial actually. It doesn't take long to teach what the contrapositive of a statement is, and even when I saw this for the first time at university I found it rather illuminating.

I think that a fundamental understanding of how logical proofs work and should be formed is something that everyone should learn at some point, even if they aren't thinking about going into maths- one of my most hated things about society is that people can think they are making a good argument and be talking absolute gibberish! I know that a knowledge of logic wouldn't solve this, but getting people to think about what does and doesn't count for a logical deduction, I feel, would be amazingly beneficial.
ah, i see. the solution to these problems is understanding when to introduce certain components of the curriculum and how much information is too much. for example, you don't need inverses, converses, biconditionals, logical equivalence, truth values, and all the properties concerning the subject. the symbols and charts are all potentially confusing to an average student and aren't necessarily needed in describing a contrapositive. it all comes back to determining exactly what is overkill. though an understanding of logical proofs would certainly be beneficial, the fact is that if you go too deep into the subject, you lose the attention of the students.

half the class pays only little attention to my math teacher. that is a fact.
dshaw
dshaw is offline
#6
Oct17-11, 05:28 PM
P: 3
Students tend to see mathematics as a rigid, regimented area of study. That's not the case in later courses which can get quite creative in interpretation. Learners need a sense of ownership over their own education to get to those later stages, or else they will lose interest. I've found students who find visual or tactile means to describe difficult concepts will share a stronger bond with the content over a student who may be learning through rote memory.
Jamma
Jamma is offline
#7
Oct18-11, 03:35 AM
P: 429
Quote Quote by maggiemaeu View Post
ah, i see. the solution to these problems is understanding when to introduce certain components of the curriculum and how much information is too much. for example, you don't need inverses, converses, biconditionals, logical equivalence, truth values, and all the properties concerning the subject. the symbols and charts are all potentially confusing to an average student and aren't necessarily needed in describing a contrapositive. it all comes back to determining exactly what is overkill. though an understanding of logical proofs would certainly be beneficial, the fact is that if you go too deep into the subject, you lose the attention of the students.

half the class pays only little attention to my math teacher. that is a fact.
I can't disagree with anything you've said there.
chiro
chiro is offline
#8
Oct18-11, 04:08 AM
P: 4,570
Quote Quote by matqkks View Post
How can we attract students to study mathematics at university?
Maybe you should ask students why they did choose or not choose mathematics as a major in university.

In terms of high paying jobs, a lot of the ambitious students are finding out that math is an option in terms of getting high paid work, and offers a path with a substantial amount of debt relative to something like law or medicine.

For the people that don't care about money, mathematics is usually up these peoples ally's. I don't think you're going to find a pure math major concerned with getting a six figure job after graduation.

The other thing would be to see what high school students perceive of math. I have tutored a few people in math, and some of them see math as basically cranking a shaft to get the right answer.

They are taught that things like balancing equations are "rules" and you have to follow the "rules". As a poster mentioned above, this kind of "non-creative" environment may be an indicator as to why people think math is boring, and quite frankly I don't blame them.

If you want to get more people into maths, it would probably help to have the right people teaching it, especially in high school. Teachers can make such a massive difference in influencing students that a lot of us can take for granted the power of a brilliant teacher can do for our future endeavors.
Jamma
Jamma is offline
#9
Oct18-11, 08:33 AM
P: 429
Quote Quote by chiro View Post
They are taught that things like balancing equations are "rules" and you have to follow the "rules". As a poster mentioned above, this kind of "non-creative" environment may be an indicator as to why people think math is boring, and quite frankly I don't blame them.
This is a very good point- kids often learn how to do certain things in mathematics, but don't learn why they're doing it. Some leave school without knowing how to properly manipulate fractions- this is madness. They are taught all the rules for doing it, and can often apply them but don't understand why these rules are there.

We should be teaching kids why they are learning these concepts and why the rules make sense, as well as the other fundamentals which go towards allowing you to learn general mathematics. Not only do I think that it would be really illuminating for them to learn these things, I also think it would be better for developing their logic, it would make the things they learn less susceptible to be forgotten and it will allow easier access for them learning new mathematics- at the moment learning each new module in mathematics is like learning a totally new thing but if they understood some very fundamental basic logic, they could pick it up more easily and quickly. And it would also be more fun for the students, the thing I personally love about mathematics over something like history is that you really feel a progression when learning it because you are learning concepts and not just memorizing facts, which maths needs to steer well away from.

We need to stop teaching kids rules and start teaching kids the skills so that they can make their own rules!
paulfr
paulfr is offline
#10
Oct18-11, 08:38 AM
P: 175
The textbooks are too complex.
Math ideas are really quite simple at the HS level.
But the books are written by Profs trying to impress Administrators
and other Profs. They are not written for the average student with
clarity and simplicity in mind.

Singapore does it much better than most.
phyzguy
phyzguy is offline
#11
Oct18-11, 08:44 AM
P: 2,071
Quote Quote by matqkks View Post
How can we attract students to study mathematics at university?
Why do we need to attract more students to study mathematics? Is there a shortage of pure mathematicians? On the contrary, my experience has been that people that do major in mathematics have trouble finding jobs in their field.
Jamma
Jamma is offline
#12
Oct18-11, 07:13 PM
P: 429
Quote Quote by phyzguy View Post
Why do we need to attract more students to study mathematics? Is there a shortage of pure mathematicians? On the contrary, my experience has been that people that do major in mathematics have trouble finding jobs in their field.
That doesn't mean that they aren't valuable in fields which aren't pure mathematics. I think this sums up what I'm trying to say:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...duates-careers
maggiemaeu
maggiemaeu is offline
#13
Oct19-11, 06:01 PM
P: 9
Quote Quote by paulfr View Post
The textbooks are too complex.
Math ideas are really quite simple at the HS level.
But the books are written by Profs trying to impress Administrators
and other Profs. They are not written for the average student with
clarity and simplicity in mind.

Singapore does it much better than most.
thank you! i can't learn a thing straight from a math textbook. even what others may think is simple is not from a bored higschooler's point of view.
lostcauses10x
lostcauses10x is offline
#14
Oct19-11, 07:47 PM
P: 94
Quote Quote by matqkks View Post
How can we attract students to study mathematics at university?
Well the first problem is maybe a 10th of the population ( I may even be way high here) has a clue to what a mathematician does, much less what careers are involved with such a degree.
And of course the MATH IS HARD part of growing up in the normal schools.

I had a discussion a couple of years ago with a university student in which I noticed had a great aptitude for math. What stopped her was simply the amount of courses needed to get the degree. Well at least she looked into it.
Microbiology is what she ended up with a degree in.
Regrettable due to her ability to grasp the concepts and ability to preform in the math classes she took.
I do know what ever she decided to take her graduate study in she will be great at.
Jamma
Jamma is offline
#15
Nov14-11, 04:49 PM
P: 429
God, when I was making my comment before I was straining to remember a funny comic I'd see on this before- I then realised it was from SMBC:

http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&id=1701

xD


Register to reply

Related Discussions
Poll For Senior Students and Grad Students General Math 0
Students of MIT Nuclear Engineering 5
What should HS Students Know? Calculus & Beyond Homework 9
IB Students Academic Guidance 0
My students and I General Discussion 5