How Do Electromagnetic Waves Remain Distinct Amid Interference?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of electromagnetic waves in the presence of interference, particularly how they maintain distinct identities despite overlapping signals from various electronic devices. Participants explore the implications of superposition, signal-to-noise ratios, and the nature of wave interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that electromagnetic waves interfere, leading to both constructive and destructive interactions, yet they question why signals do not become unusable amid the multitude of overlapping waves.
  • One participant proposes that while waves superpose to create a unique sum, the individual components remain distinct and do not affect each other directly.
  • Another participant emphasizes that electronic devices are designed to operate with signals that exceed the noise level, suggesting that if noise levels were too high, devices would fail to function.
  • A participant expresses confusion about how signals can remain distinct despite the presence of numerous overlapping waves, drawing analogies to water waves and color mixing.
  • One participant challenges the notion of waves being in phase, explaining that if two waves differ in properties, they can exist independently and pass through each other without interaction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the mechanisms that allow electromagnetic waves to remain distinct amid interference. Multiple competing views are presented regarding the nature of wave interactions and the role of signal-to-noise ratios.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights uncertainties regarding the definitions of wave interactions and the conditions under which signals remain distinct. There are references to specific experiments that illustrate wave behavior, but these are not universally accepted as definitive explanations.

one_raven
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Electromagnetic waves interfere with each other.
They cancel each other out.
They can be complimentary or destructive, but they do interact with and change each other.

If that's the case, with the plethora of electronic devices that surround us and the endless radio traffic we incessantly produce, why don't they all simply muddle each other and make them unusable?

Even signals of different frequencies can affect each other.

What am I missing?
 
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While they superpose to create a unique sum, the individual components remain distinct. So they do not effect each other but only the sum total of EM energy present.
 
What you are missing is that most electronic devices are designed to operate with a "signal" that far exceeds the noise level which is comprised of all that other stuff out there! If the noise level were raised sufficiently then they wouldn't function.

Try placing a portable radio close to your computer and listen to an outlying station (even a local station will do if it's not one of those 50,000 W power stations!). Report back to us when you're done. :-)
 
Integral said:
While they superpose to create a unique sum, the individual components remain distinct. So they do not effect each other but only the sum total of EM energy present.
I understand that.
If that weren't true, then it wouldn't work.
What I am failing to grasp is how that is true.

Tide said:
What you are missing is that most electronic devices are designed to operate with a "signal" that far exceeds the noise level which is comprised of all that other stuff out there! If the noise level were raised sufficiently then they wouldn't function.
Of course.
Why isn't the noise too loud, though?
Look at cell phones in NYC.
There can be thousands of people talking on cell phones that operate in the same narrow band of frequencues at the same time in the same close vicinty at the same approximate power all in a city that is inundated with radio signals incessantly.

Electromagnetic waves affect each other in basically the same way that waves in a pool of water do.
If I make a wave in phase with an existing wave, the first wave gets bigger, they are no longer distinct entities.
If it is out of phase, they cancel each other out, and whichever wave had a greater amplitude is not decreased by the amplitude of the second wave, and the second wave disappears.
It works the same way with color, correct?

Why don't the waves simply blend?
 
"If I make a wave in phase with an existing wave, the first wave gets bigger, they are no longer distinct entities."

You can't really make two waves in phase with each other. If they have the same source, the same direction and are in phase, then you're really just increasing the amplitude of the first one.

But - if you create two waves that are different in only one (or more) of those properties, they will exist completely independent of each other. If you wait for a moment, you will see the two waves pass each other and move on.

There is a grade 11 Physics experiment that demonstrates exactly that with a spring or string. Start start two waves along it, the first one will get to the end and bounce back. It will encounter the second, and they will pass each other and keep moving as if they never encountered each other.
 

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