Can Mathematics Prove the Need for Ethics and Unity Among Elites?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the potential role of mathematics in establishing ethical behavior among elites, particularly in the context of economics. Participants explore whether mathematical proofs can influence ethical decision-making and the implications of such proofs on societal behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference John Nash's work to suggest that individuals must consider the broader impact of their actions.
  • There is a proposal that mathematics could serve as a bridge between intellectual and wealthy elites, potentially guiding ethical behavior.
  • One participant argues that while mathematics can "prove" various claims, it cannot definitively prove that people should act ethically.
  • Another point raised is that the assumptions underlying mathematical models are often the subject of debate, which complicates the application of mathematics to ethical questions.
  • A participant challenges the assumption that economists inherently follow a path of war and hate, questioning the framing of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the ability of mathematics to influence ethical behavior, with no consensus reached on whether mathematical proofs can effectively guide moral decisions.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of applying mathematical reasoning to ethical considerations, emphasizing the role of underlying assumptions and the subjective nature of ethical interpretation.

lockecole
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John Nash proved you have to think not only about yourself.

Is possible to prove that people should be ethical with mathematics?

If somebody proved that absolute truth exists and, for example, economists read another proof written in business language that they should choose to follow the path of peace and love instead of war and hate, would economists ignore both proofs?

Since the intellectual elite and the rich elite study mathematics, can mathematics be the bridge between them?
 
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lockecole said:
John Nash proved you have to think not only about yourself.

Is possible to prove that people should be ethical with mathematics?

If somebody proved that absolute truth exists and, for example, economists read another proof written in business language that they should choose to follow the path of peace and love instead of war and hate, would economists ignore both proofs?

Since the intellectual elite and the rich elite study mathematics, can mathematics be the bridge between them?

A proof means nothing to an ignorant person.
 
You can "prove" anything with mathematics.

You cannot, however, mathematically prove that a specific mathematical model is exactly true for any specific real world application.

So: no, you cannot prove that people should be ethical with mathematics.

YOU can prove that given certain assumptions about what WILL HAPPEN IF people behave in a certain way, then the best overall outcome will be if people ...

Of course, it is precisely those (non-mathematical) assumptions about what "WILL HAPPEN IF" that everyone argues about!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
lockecole said:
John Nash proved you have to think not only about yourself.

Is possible to prove that people should be ethical with mathematics?

If somebody proved that absolute truth exists and, for example, economists read another proof written in business language that they should choose to follow the path of peace and love instead of war and hate, would economists ignore both proofs?

Since the intellectual elite and the rich elite study mathematics, can mathematics be the bridge between them?

Who said that economists follow the path of war and hate?
 

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