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Could someone explain the humor in "Haddocks Eyes" - (for Alice in Wonderland fans)? |
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| Apr16-12, 02:09 AM | #1 |
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Could someone explain the humor in "Haddocks Eyes" - (for Alice in Wonderland fans)?
Hello , I was recently reminded of a section of 'Through The Looking Glass' - the one about Haddock's Eyes because of a post here at PF :-
Here's what I understood - The name of the song is :-The Aged Aged Man The name of the name of the song is :- Haddock's Eyes. But I am unable to understand what 'Ways and Means' and 'A-sitting on A gate' stand for.(Or is it the case that from this point on it really is nonsensical ?) Jokes and puns lose their punch if explained , but I just am not getting it here. . It is so maddening that I am beginning to appreciate the point made by the Cheshire cat, when he says that we are all mad here. |
| Apr16-12, 05:32 AM | #2 |
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my friend's cat …
is called "pussy" |
| Apr16-12, 05:50 AM | #3 |
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Song is called ... Name is ... Name is called ... |
| Apr16-12, 10:06 AM | #4 |
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Could someone explain the humor in "Haddocks Eyes" - (for Alice in Wonderland fans)?Here is where I am confused :- 1) Isn't 'Name' = 'What the song is called' ? So why should there be there be two different values for 'Name is'(which is given as 'The Aged Aged Man') and 'Song is Called'(which is given as 'Ways and Means') ? Or is it just the case of their being multiple names for the same object ? (as so often happens in life , for example a person who is named Robert is also called Bob sometimes) 2) It is given that the Song is 'A-sitting On A Gate' , Should the entire song be written within quotes ? Sorry , for still not getting the joke.
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| Apr16-12, 11:38 AM | #5 |
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I think what's going on here is that Carroll is humorously amplifying the confusion that might result from the King James version of the Bible, which all his readers at the time would have been familiar with.
I happen to remember this passage in particular because Handel uses it in "The Messiah", but there are probably more places in the Bible where this construction is used. I don't know if this reflects the English of the time of the translation, or the original language. Regardless, it is certainly an awkward and misleading enough construction to provoke someone like Carroll, who was into word play, into this descant on the silliness of the logic of the construction, removed from a religious context, of course. |
| Apr16-12, 02:56 PM | #6 |
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it's from Isaiah 9:5 (or 9:6) … and his name is called wonderful etc (vayikrah shemo pele … וַיִּקְרָא שְׁמוֹ פֶּלֶא)vayikrah = and called, shemo = his name, pele = wonderful the same phrase is used throughout the Old Testament (to search, go to http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0.htm and enter וַיִּקְרָא), here are some examples from Genesis … Genesis 2:19-20 … and brought them unto the man to see what he would call them (mah yikrah lo מַה-יִּקְרָא-לוֹ); and whatsoever the man would call every living creature, that was to be the name thereof. And the man gave names to all cattle … (vayikrah ha'adam shemos lecol habehamoh ... וַיִּקְרָא הָאָדָם שֵׁמוֹת, לְכָל-הַבְּהֵמָה)also Genesis 5:2, 3, 29 … and called their name Adam …also Genesis 35:8, 15 and 20 … and the name of it was called Allon-bacuth …Genesis 26:18, 20, 21, 22 … And Isaac digged again the wells … and he called their names after the names by which his father had called them.Interestingly, Genesis 26:33 … And he called it [a well] Shibah. Therefore the name of the city is Beer-sheba unto this day. (vayikrah osah shivah, ul-cain-shem-ha'ir be'air shevah … וַיִּקְרָא אֹתָהּ, שִׁבְעָה; עַל-כֵּן שֵׁם-הָעִיר בְּאֵר שֶׁבַע)"vayikrah" can also mean the other sense of "called", see Genesis 26:9 … And Abimelech called Isaac, and said … (vayikrah Abimelech vYitzhak … וַיִּקְרָא אֲבִימֶלֶךְ לְיִצְחָק)also Genesis 12:17, Genesis 21:3, 17, Genesis 28:1 … And Pharaoh called Abram … |
| Apr16-12, 03:42 PM | #7 |
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"...and Tiny-Tim's name, henceforth, shall be called researcher, for he is of those who are thorough and comprehensive in the finding of information..."
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| Apr16-12, 03:47 PM | #8 |
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Mentor
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| Apr16-12, 10:23 PM | #9 |
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![]() But I am still not getting the solution to doubt #1. :- By the way , thanks everyone for participating in this thread. All of your responses helped me in a better understanding of the passage. |
| Apr16-12, 10:38 PM | #10 |
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| Apr17-12, 01:50 AM | #11 |
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![]() Thanks everyone. |
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