Is Angular Momentum also conserved in 3-dimensions.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the conservation of angular momentum in three-dimensional space, exploring whether angular momentum is conserved similarly to linear momentum in a 3D universe. The scope includes theoretical considerations and mathematical formulations related to angular momentum in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that angular momentum is represented by a vector with magnitude ##I \omega## for rigid bodies or mvr for point masses, and its components are conserved in the absence of external torques, paralleling the conservation of linear momentum.
  • Another participant discusses the invariance of the Lagrangian under 3D rotations, suggesting that this invariance implies the conservation of angular momentum, as the physics remains unchanged under rotation.
  • A later reply questions the specific metric being referenced in the context of the Lagrangian, prompting clarification about the use of a flat space metric.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying perspectives on the conservation of angular momentum, with some supporting its conservation based on mathematical formulations while others seek clarification on specific terms and concepts. The discussion does not reach a consensus.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to specific mathematical expressions and concepts, such as the Lagrangian and metrics, which may depend on particular definitions and assumptions that are not fully resolved.

Michio Cuckoo
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We know that a 3D universe like ours, linear momentum is conserved in 3 dimesions,

Up-Down
Left-Right
Forward-Backward


But is Angular Momentum also conserved in three dimensions?

Clockwise-Anticlockwise, but repeated 3 times.

Imagine three circles, all mutually perpendicular.
 
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Yes, there is an angular momentum vector whose magnitude is ##I \omega## for a rigid body or mvr for a point-mass going along a circular path, and whose direction is along the axis of rotation. Its three components are each conserved, in a system with no external torques, just like the three components of linear momentum are conserved, in a system with no external forces.
 
Yet another way, is to look at the Lagrangian, a warehouse of information for the system. The Lagrangian for a free particle is [itex]L=\frac{1}{2}m\, g_{ij}u_i u_j[/itex]. Now remember that the metric is invariant under rotations, and transforms as [itex]g_{ij}=R_{ik}R_{jl}g_{kl}[/itex] and vectors as [itex]a_{i}'=R_{ij}a_j[/itex]. You can see that the Lagrangian is invariant under 3D rotations
[tex] L'=\frac{1}{2}m g_{ij} u'_i u'_j=\frac{1}{2}mg_{ij}R_{ik}u_k R_{jl}u_l=\frac{1}{2}m(g_{ij}R_{ik}R_{jl})u_k u_l=\frac{1}{2}m\, g_{kl}u_k u_l[/tex]
which is the same thing we started with in a different frame of reference. Then if the system is invariant under 3D rotations, angular momentum is conserved, since what ever happens that this Lagrangian describes, could have happened from any rotated perspective, so rotating the system won't change the physics. But angular momentum is all about what happens when "going around". It's got to be conserved.
 
jfy4 said:
Yet another way, is to look at the Lagrangian, a warehouse of information for the system. The Lagrangian for a free particle is [itex]L=\frac{1}{2}m\, g_{ij}u_i u_j[/itex]. Now remember that the metric is invariant under rotations, and transforms as [itex]g_{ij}=R_{ik}R_{jl}g_{kl}[/itex] and vectors as [itex]a_{i}'=R_{ij}a_j[/itex]. You can see that the Lagrangian is invariant under 3D rotations
[tex] L'=\frac{1}{2}m g_{ij} u'_i u'_j=\frac{1}{2}mg_{ij}R_{ik}u_k R_{jl}u_l=\frac{1}{2}m(g_{ij}R_{ik}R_{jl})u_k u_l=\frac{1}{2}m\, g_{kl}u_k u_l[/tex]
which is the same thing we started with in a different frame of reference. Then if the system is invariant under 3D rotations, angular momentum is conserved, since what ever happens that this Lagrangian describes, could have happened from any rotated perspective, so rotating the system won't change the physics. But angular momentum is all about what happens when "going around". It's got to be conserved.

What metric are you referring to here, the space-time metric as in GR?
 
just flat space, no time. so [itex]\delta_{ij}=g_{ij}[/itex].
 

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