Proving the Limit of Integral over f:[a,b] to R

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the limit of the integral of a bounded and integrable function f over the interval [a,b] as a sequence approaches the lower limit a. Participants explore various approaches to rigorously justify the limit expression.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes to show that \(\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} \int_{a_n}^{b} f(x)dx = \int_{a}^{b} f(x)dx\) using the relationship between the integrals over different intervals.
  • Another participant confirms that if f is Riemann integrable, it must be bounded, but expresses uncertainty regarding Lebesgue integrals.
  • A suggestion is made to use the second fundamental theorem of calculus to define an anti-derivative of f, leading to a limit involving the properties of limits.
  • Concerns are raised about the assumption that an anti-derivative exists for f, noting that integrability does not guarantee the existence of a primitive function, especially if f is discontinuous.
  • A later reply acknowledges the previous concern and suggests that the proof can proceed by showing that \(\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} \int_{a}^{a_n} f(x)dx = 0\) using the continuity of the defined function F(z) based on the second fundamental theorem of calculus.
  • Another participant expresses appreciation for the clarification provided in the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the assumptions regarding the existence of a primitive function for f. While some suggest using fundamental theorems of calculus, others caution against assuming continuity or the existence of such primitives. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to rigorously justify the limit.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to the assumptions of continuity and the existence of primitives for integrable functions, indicating that these factors may affect the validity of proposed methods.

quasar987
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Consider f:[a,b] --> R, an integrable and bounded (ain't that implied by "integrable"?!) function and consider {a_n} a sequence that converges towards a and such that a < a_n < b (for all n). Show and rigorously justify that

[tex]\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} \int_{a_n}^{b} f(x)dx = \int_{a}^{b} f(x)dx[/tex]

All we found is the, imo, not very rigorous and seemingly too easy,

[tex]\int_{a}^{b} f(x)dx = \int_{a}^{a_n} f(x)dx + \int_{a_n}^{b} f(x)dx \Rightarrow \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} \int_{a}^{b} f(x)dx = \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} \int_{a}^{a_n} f(x)dx + \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} \int_{a_n}^{b} f(x)dx[/tex]
[tex]\Rightarrow \int_{a}^{b} f(x)dx = 0 + \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty}\int_{a_n}^{b} f(x)dx[/tex] qed

Does anyone with more insight see how to do this more rigorously or is this the way?
 
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quasar987 said:
Consider f:[a,b] --> R, an integrable and bounded (ain't that implied by "integrable"?!)

Yes. If it's Riemann integrable, then it must be bounded. I don't know anything about Lebesgue integrals.

quasar987 said:
Does anyone with more insight see how to do this more rigorously or is this the way?

I'd say, use the second fundamental theorem of calculus to define an anti-derivative of f... call it F(x).

Then use the first fundamental theorem of calculus, to write your integral of f(x) from [tex]a_n[/tex] to b, as F(b)-F(an). Then the rest should be easy using the properties of limits.
 
Last edited:
I think you're assuming that there exists a primitive. "Integrable" does not imply "there exist a primitive to f(x) such that the integral is F(b) - F(a)". Maybe f is discontinuous.
 
quasar987 said:
I think you're assuming that there exists a primitive. "Integrable" does not imply "there exist a primitive to f(x) such that the integral is F(b) - F(a)". Maybe f is discontinuous.

Yes, you're right. Forget about the first fundamental theorem of calculus.

Your proof is right... except you need to show that:

[tex]lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} \int_{a}^{a_n} f(x)dx =0[/tex]

According to the second fundamental theorem of calculus, we can define:

[tex]F(z)=\int_{a}^{z} f(x)dx[/tex]

We don't need f(x) to be continuous to do this. So:

[tex]F(a_n)=\int_{a}^{a_n} f(x)dx[/tex]

We can put this in your limit and the limit becomes:

[tex]lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} F(a_n)[/tex]

But according to the second fundamental theorem of calculus F(z) is continuous. So:

[tex]lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} F(a_n)= F(lim_{n \rightarrow \infty}a_n)[/tex]

which equals:

[tex]F(a)[/tex]

and [tex]F(a)=\int_{a}^{a} f(x)dx =0[/tex]

So that should do it.
 
Last edited:
Very nice! Thank you for that.
 

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