How Should High-Value, Fragile Equipment Be Transported Safely?

  • Thread starter Thread starter humanino
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the safe transportation of high-value, fragile equipment, specifically a power supply for a physics experiment that was damaged during shipping. Participants explore the implications of this incident on the experiment's timeline and the potential legal actions that could be taken against the shipping company.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the power supply as a $100,000 piece of equipment that was mishandled during transport, leading to potential safety hazards and project delays.
  • Concerns are raised about the timeline for replacing the damaged power supply and rescheduling the experiment, with some suggesting it could take up to two years.
  • Several participants express frustration over the financial and time losses associated with the incident, including the impact on graduate studies and project funding.
  • There are suggestions to pursue legal action against the trucking company for negligence and compensation for both the equipment and lost time.
  • Some participants discuss the emotional toll of the situation, with expressions of sympathy and shared frustration over the mishap.
  • One participant humorously suggests alternative shipping methods, while others critique the labeling of the equipment as potentially inadequate.
  • A participant mentions that incidental damages may be waived under the shipping contract, adding another layer of complexity to the situation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the severity of the situation and the potential need for legal action, but there is no consensus on the best course of action or the feasibility of recovering losses.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the shipping contract's terms, the adequacy of the precautions taken, and the implications of the incident on the broader research community.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to researchers and students involved in experimental physics, logistics professionals, and those concerned with the safe transport of sensitive equipment.

humanino
Messages
2,538
Reaction score
8
For the upcoming experiment I am working on, we bought a 100,000$ power supply. This is just a 2 m high box, full of HV electronics in order to deliver a controlled 500A current under a stable 5V or less. It feeds magnetic superconducting coils. Anyway, this box was written "FRAGILE" on it, "THIS SIDE UP", and had all the warnings required. Besides, the transporter signed for the shipping under well-defined stringent conditions, such as "using an air cushion" and other precautions that have not been respected. They dropped the box from at least 3m high :bugeye: and never told us anything. :eek: Would we have turned it on, any person within a few meters around the box could be dead now (possible electrical arcs). Maybe less important, but kind of important to me, it has been two years now I began working on the preparation : today, some people say this experiment simply cannot take place. :cry: Others prefer to wait for expertise.
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
This is terrible! :frown:

If the power supply has to be replaced, how many months will it take?

How difficult will it be to get the experiment re-scheduled?
 
If the experiment is re-scheduled, it will take place in two years : there are many other experiments scheduled after ours, among which many are basically ready to begin. Since beam time is so expensive, we cannot afford to wait, even a few weeks is not reasonable.
 
humanino said:
If the experiment is re-scheduled, it will take place in two years
OMG! So it will delay your PHD 2 more years? :cry:

there are many other experiments scheduled after ours, among which many are basically ready to begin. Since beam time is so expensive, we cannot afford to wait, even a few weeks is not reasonable.
Hopefully there will be another suitable power supply you can borrow. I will keep my fingers crossed.

Evo<----puts her arm around humanino We will send MIH after the trucker that did this. :devil: (she's been practicing) :approve:

Next time you need anything shipped, let me know, we can put it on the supersonic RV. There are plenty of cushions in the RV lounge. :wink:
 
I hope they gave you back the hundred grand... :-p

Daniel.

P.S.Work in theory.Pencils are not fragile material... :-p
 
Excuse my irony.I didn't realize it was that bad... :frown:

Daniel.
 
humanino said:
If the experiment is re-scheduled, it will take place in two years : there are many other experiments scheduled after ours, among which many are basically ready to begin. Since beam time is so expensive, we cannot afford to wait, even a few weeks is not reasonable.

That's awful! Here's your introduction to the American legal system...SUE the trucking company, not only for the cost of the equipment, but for the cost of lost time on the project (2 years of even a lowly grad student stipend adds up to a lot of money, include your tuition fees, your airfare to the US, lodging expenses, etc.) I don't know how easily you can do that, but at least thinking about it should help make you feel better...maybe. :frown:

They should definitely be responsible for the cost of the equipment damaged if they were negligent in their handling, especially when proper precautions were specified. Dropping something that says "FRAGILE" is definitely negligent.

Of course none of that helps you with the delay it will cause to your project. Is this experiment essential to your PhD, or can you substitute something else considering this was really something entirely outside of your control?

Have a good cry, stomp around, punch a wall, get drunk...you deserve to be mad today.
 
Evo said:
OMG! So it will delay your PHD 2 more years? :cry:
I would actually either begin another one, or just switch to another experiment.

Evo<----puts her arm around humanino We will send MIH after the trucker that did this. :devil: (she's been practicing) :approve:

Next time you need anything shipped, let me know, we can put it on the supersonic RV. There are plenty of cushions in the RV lounge. :wink:
:smile: Thank you Evo. You are so nice.
 
dextercioby said:
Excuse my irony.I didn't realize it was that bad... :frown:
Don't worry, I am actually considering to switch to theory. The reason I chose experimental physics was that to me, this separation theory/experiment is artificial and this project is closer to my conception : first predict new phenomena (this was done by theoreticians) and then confront to Nature (this is the difficult part).
 
  • #10
humanino said:
Don't worry, I am actually considering to switch to theory. The reason I chose experimental physics was that to me, this separation theory/experiment is artificial and this project is closer to my conception : first predict new phenomena (this was done by theoreticians) and then confront to Nature (this is the difficult part).

It's good you have a back-up plan on this. At least now when someone asks why you went into theoretical instead of experimental physics, you'll have a really good story to tell.
 
  • #11
Moonbear said:
SUE the trucking company
The insurance compagny had been notified, and the process has already begun :mad:


Is this experiment essential to your PhD, or can you substitute something else considering this was really something entirely outside of your control?
This experiment was actually the core of my PhD : prepare it (almost done), do it, and analyze it.

Have a good cry, stomp around, punch a wall, get drunk...you deserve to be mad today.
I will, but i could have even without this good pretext :-p :smile:
 
  • #12
Moonbear said:
That's awful! Here's your introduction to the American legal system...SUE the trucking company, not only for the cost of the equipment, but for the cost of lost time on the project (2 years of even a lowly grad student stipend adds up to a lot of money, include your tuition fees, your airfare to the US, lodging expenses, etc.) I don't know how easily you can do that, but at least thinking about it should help make you feel better...maybe. :frown:
Yeah, sue them! I think all of us at PF that are sharing your pain are also due financial compensation from that company for our mental anguish. :-p
 
  • #13
Evo said:
Yeah, sue them! I think all of us at PF that are sharing your pain are also due financial compensation from that company for our mental anguish. :-p
:rolleyes:
This is indeed an invaluable loss for the entire mankind, intellectual progress is so important :rolleyes:
 
  • #14
humanino said:
This experiment was actually the core of my PhD : prepare it (almost done), do it, and analyze it.

:frown: I feel so disappointed for you. I can't even imagine how you must feel right now. I think I'd be feeling sick to my stomach over it.

But, I can tell you this much...if you can get yourself through this experience and stay in science, you'll be able to survive anything else thrown your way.
 
  • #15
Evo said:
Yeah, sue them! I think all of us at PF that are sharing your pain are also due financial compensation from that company for our mental anguish. :-p

Was this funded by US or French tax dollars? Darn right I want compensation if that trucking company just led to the waste of my tax money! :mad:

We're here for you. If you need to rant, rave, fume, swear in little asterisks (I guess we can't let you around the censoring rule), go for it! If I could give you a hug and buy your drinks tonight, I would.
 
  • #16
You should have written the label in English. Who the heck understands French? "Fragile" what does that mean?
 
  • #17
tribdog said:
You should have written the label in English. Who the heck understands French? "Fragile" what does that mean?
it up
[/url]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #18
That's disgusting... Someone making fun of Tribby's jokes... :-p :-p

Daniel.
 
  • #19
I'm sorry to hear about this Humanino. In addition to a another member here, a friend of mine had similar bad luck. It may not help much but you're not alone.

Also, usually any incidental or consequential damages are waived under the shipping contract. The only liability is the value of the goods. You can sue anybody for any reason, but your chances of winning may not be very good.
 
  • #20
eax said:
it up
[/url]
shouldn't you be in bed?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #21
Ivan Seeking said:
You can sue anybody for any reason, but your chances of winning may not be very good.
That's why I suggested we just send MIH. :approve: Heck, perhaps the entire sisterhood should go out on this one. I could use a little rifle practice. :devil: :biggrin:
 
  • #22
Ivan Seeking said:
Also, usually any incidental or consequential damages are waived under the shipping contract. The only liability is the value of the goods. You can sue anybody for any reason, but your chances of winning may not be very good.

It's always worth looking into. There's a difference between something getting damaged because the truck hit one too many potholes that couldn't have been anticipated, or got in an accident along the way, and someone outright dropping something labeled fragile, and it sounds like other precautions (this end up) weren't heeded either from Humanino's original post. In that case, it's negligence, so I don't think the contract will hold up in that case. Of course, you may have to directly sue the individual employees for their part in it, which wouldn't get much since I doubt anyone working for a trucking company is making enough money to pay back any judgement against them, but you have to start with the company.
 
  • #23
Evo said:
That's why I suggested we just send MIH. :approve: Heck, perhaps the entire sisterhood should go out on this one. I could use a little rifle practice. :devil: :biggrin:

Woo hoo! Lock and load sista! :devil:
 
  • #24
Are the sisters for hire? I have a couple of customers that I'd like you to visit. :biggrin:
 
  • #25
Ivan Seeking said:
Are the sisters for hire? I have a couple of customers that I'd like you to visit. :biggrin:

First we need to take care of one of Evo's customers who seems to take her health and safety too lightly, then we can get to your customers.
 
  • #26
Moonbear said:
Was this funded by US or French tax dollars?
The power supply was paid by your DOE, so yes you can be mad !

Ivan Seeking said:
I'm sorry to hear about this Humanino. In addition to a another member here, a friend of mine had similar bad luck. It may not help much but you're not alone.
Yes I am aware of this. Actually, there was an electrical accident at SLAC in October. One guy violated 6 different safety rules, and was violently burnt. Since then, SLAC is simply shut down for physics. It represents many people having to find a new PhD subject (foreign student often have less time than you do in the US).
 
  • #27
Humanino, are you going into theoretical physics now ? If so, join the club man...Hopefully, i will be starting my phd in october on Density Functional theory and general QM-applications for nanotechnology and micro-electronics. It is theoretical but certainly no hardcore QFT like my thesis.

What would you do in theoretical physics, if you'd change ??

marlon
 
  • #28
dextercioby said:
That's disgusting... Someone making fun of Tribby's jokes... :-p :-p

Daniel.


He had it coming on that one.
 
  • #29
marlon said:
What would you do in theoretical physics, if you'd change ??
My dear Godfather, I would in any case stick in QCD. Strong interaction physics and GPDs. Probably compute GPDs on the lattice using chiral and/or instanton framework. It is vague enough to be true :wink:

[thread=41885]GPDs[/thread]
arjournals.annualreviews.org/doi/pdf/10.1146/annurev.nucl.54.070103.181302[/URL]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #30
Humanino, I'm terribly sorry about the disaster. How much time had you invested into the project till now ? Is this a custom built power supply ? I haven't heard of an off-the-shelf (Oxford Instruments or other such) supply that puts out 500A. The common ones (like the ~1 KW supplies) go up to only 120A (cost ~$13,000).

Whatever you are putting in your magnet must be pretty big - meaning bigger than a cubic centimeter. I can't think of any other obvious reason for a 500A supply. And I can only imagine the time and effort that must have gone into the design of the magnet.

Hope you can recover from this without too much of a hiccup.