Magnetic Dipole Moment does not include the permeability of free space?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the magnetic dipole moment and the permeability of free space, particularly questioning why the magnetic dipole moment formula does not include this constant while other magnetic field equations do. The scope includes theoretical exploration and conceptual clarification regarding magnetic moments and their measurements.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why the magnetic dipole moment does not incorporate the permeability of free space, despite its presence in the formula for the magnetic field in a current loop.
  • Another participant suggests that the placement of the constant μ₀ is a matter of convention, indicating that it is not included in the magnetic moment but appears in the equations for magnetic fields.
  • A different viewpoint states that measurements involving the magnetic moment inherently include the magnetic field, which does account for permeability.
  • One participant seeks clarification on what the magnetic dipole moment actually measures, linking it to the torque experienced by dipoles in a magnetic field, as seen in the Stern-Gerlach experiment.
  • Another participant defines the magnetic dipole moment as a measure of the strength of interaction between the dipole and an external magnetic field.
  • A comparison is made to the electric dipole moment, arguing that just as the electric dipole moment does not include ε₀, the magnetic dipole moment does not need to include μ₀ by definition.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the inclusion of μ₀ in the magnetic dipole moment, with some asserting it is a matter of definition while others emphasize its relevance in measurements involving magnetic fields. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these perspectives.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights potential ambiguities in definitions and conventions surrounding magnetic dipole moments and their relationship with magnetic fields, particularly in the context of experimental observations.

H_man
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Magnetic Dipole Moment does not include the permeability of free space?

Hi,

The formula for a magnetic field in a current loop involves the permeability of free space.

But the formula for the magnetic dipole moment which seems to represent the flux through a current loop does not incorporate the permeability of free space.

Whats happening here?

:bugeye:
 
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It's just a question of where you put the constant mu0.
It's not usually put in the mag mom. Then mu0/4pi is put into the Eq. for B, just as it is for B due to currents.
The mag mom is NOT the flux through a current loop.
 
Anything that you measure involving the magnetic moment also involves a magnetics field, and the permeability is included in that magnetic fielc.
 
Thanks for that, though its still not entirely clear.

What exactly is the Magnetic Dipole Moment a measure of then?

I ask this as I know in the Stern Gerlach exp. the Ag atoms experience a torque due to the dipole moments of the electrons being acted upon by the magnetic field into which it enters. And I originally assumed that the dipole moment was a way of stating the magentic field strength of the current loop...



:bugeye:
 
What exactly is the Magnetic Dipole Moment a measure of then?

It is a measure of how strong the interaction between that dipole and an external magnetic field would be.
 
Use the analogue of the electric dipole moment. This is simply the charge times a separation. You do not see [itex]\epsilon_0[/itex] anywhere, do you ?

Likewise, there is no reason for the magnetic dipole moment to have [itex]\mu_0[/itex] in it. This is by definition.
 
Last edited:
Thanks guys, its all much clearer now.

:smile:
 

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