Can Sound Exist Beyond 20kHz and Become Something Else?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of sound and its existence at frequencies beyond the human audible range of 20Hz to 20kHz. Participants explore whether sound can transition into another form of energy or wave, particularly as frequencies increase, and the implications of ultrasonic and electromagnetic waves.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Experimental/applied

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question if sound energy can exist at frequencies beyond 20kHz and whether it would still be considered sound.
  • One participant defines sound waves as molecular vibrations with specific frequencies, suggesting that energy is not relevant to the definition of sound.
  • Another participant claims that at very high frequencies, sound waves become inaudible and may become visible, referencing the electromagnetic spectrum.
  • It is noted that mechanical sound waves and electromagnetic waves are fundamentally different, with examples such as dog whistles and ultrasonic applications provided to illustrate sound existing above human hearing.
  • A participant mentions that certain substances may only allow acoustic waves to propagate below specific frequencies.
  • Concerns are raised about the accuracy of statements regarding the visibility of sound waves at high frequencies, with a request for clarification and proof of such claims.
  • One participant argues against the idea that sound waves can become visible, emphasizing the distinct nature of sound and electromagnetic waves, and providing examples of radio frequencies and ultrasound.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between sound and electromagnetic waves, with some asserting that sound can exist at higher frequencies while others argue that it transitions into a different phenomenon. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the visibility of sound waves at high frequencies and the implications of ultrasonic applications.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about the nature of sound and electromagnetic waves depend on specific definitions and contexts, which are not fully explored. There are also unresolved questions regarding the propagation of acoustic waves in different substances and the accuracy of experimental measurements discussed.

Evilinside
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I'm currently studying vibrations and frequencies. I know that humans can hear from a range of 20Hz-20kHz. I was wondering if sound energy could reach a frequency where it was no longer really sound. Is this possible?
 
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Sound waves are simply molecular vibrations which propagate with a certain velocity and have frequencies in the range 20 Hz-->20KHz.The essential defining part is the frequency.I don't see the relevence of energy (proportional to the sq.of the wave amplitude) in this matter.

Daniel.
 
As the waves get into higher and higher frequencies, they are not auditble anymore. however they can get visible, when the frequency reaches that of light.
 
amt said:
As the waves get into higher and higher frequencies, they are not auditble anymore. however they can get visible, when the frequency reaches that of light.

aka the electromagnetic spectrum - :smile: - also, what you said is really only true in low level physics :smile:
 
Do not confuse mechanical sound waves with electromagnetic waves they are very different animals. Yes sound waves exist above the range we can hear. For examples, a dog whistle, since dogs and many other animals can hear much higher frequencies then men (or women) they respond to the whistle while we hear nothing. Even more important then that is the entire field of ultrasonics. Jewelers use ultra sonics in baths to clean rings, your digital camera uses ultra sonics to focus. There are lots of other applications for, and examples of, ultrasonic devices.
 
im doing an experiment on ultrasonics. i have to find out where ther's a hole in a block of aluminium. what should i expect to see on the oscilloscope and how can i measure the size of the hole from my data? it says on another site there should be impedence i.e a disturbance but I am not really noticing much. also can anyone give me formulas for percentage error accuracy error and random error in calculations
 
I know that in at least some substances, acoustical waves can only propagate when they are below a certain frequency.
 
amt said:
As the waves get into higher and higher frequencies, they are not auditble anymore. however they can get visible, when the frequency reaches that of light.

i want to ask you about this quote how couls you say "however they can get visible, when the frequency reaches that of light" i beleve it but can you give me some prof about it be i have to reply to some one

my email :- oum_ganeshansh1@yahoo.co.in
 
  • #10
Vinek said:
i want to ask you about this quote how couls you say "however they can get visible, when the frequency reaches that of light" i beleve it but can you give me some prof about it be i have to reply to some one

There is no proof because it's not true. As Integral said, EM waves are very different from sound waves. Long wave radio goes down as far as 148.5 kHz, interference from power lines at 60 and 50 Hz is common, and ELF radio communications in the tens of Hz were used with submarines. Ultrasound easily goes through the kHz range into the MHz, and in some cases into the GHz or even THz range. Sound waves and EM waves can easily be created with identical frequencies, but they will still clearly be different phenomena.
 

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