Electromagnetic Field, H vs. B

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of magnetic field strength (H) and magnetic flux density (B) in the context of electromagnetism. Participants explore the relationship between these two quantities, particularly in relation to the effect of inserting a soft iron core into a coil and how it influences magnetic forces without changing the field strength.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding why the magnetic force on a needle increases when a soft iron core is added, despite the magnetic field strength (H) remaining constant.
  • Another participant clarifies that H and B are both vectors describing magnetism, with B being the fundamental magnetic field and H being the magnetic field strength, which is influenced by free current.
  • Some participants note that while B increases with the introduction of the iron core, H does not change because it is dependent solely on the free current in the coil.
  • A later reply emphasizes the distinction between B and H, stating that B is influenced by both free and bound currents, while H pertains only to free currents.
  • Several participants suggest resources for further reading on electromagnetism and related topics.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the initial confusion regarding the relationship between H and B, as participants present differing explanations and clarifications. The discussion reflects multiple competing views on the definitions and implications of these magnetic quantities.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various texts and resources, indicating a range of interpretations and understandings of the concepts involved. Some statements contain assumptions about the definitions of H and B that may not be universally accepted.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and professionals interested in electromagnetism, particularly those seeking to understand the nuances between magnetic field strength and flux density.

temujin
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I have a problem understanding the meaning of magnetic field strength, denotet H.

I have the following example from a textbook:

1. The path of magnetic field strength developed in a conductor loop is given by the formula H = (I*N*R^2) / (2*sqrt(R^2+x^2)^3)
I = current
N=number of turns
R=radius of loop
x=distance from the center.

Now, my textbook says "If a soft iron core is inserted into a coil-all other things remaining equal-then the force acting on a magnetic needle will increase. I*N remains constant and therefore so does the field strength. However, the flux density "B" -the total number of flux lines-which is decisive for the force generated has increased."

So if the magnetic force acting on a magnetic needle increases, why does not the field strength increase. And what exactly is the difference between H and B. Does anyone know any good web sites, tutorials etc on electromagnetism, inductive coupling.

t.
 
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Three good references are:
1. Intro to Electromagnetic Compatibility by Clayton Paul
2. Noise Reduction Techniques in Electronic Systems by Henry Ott
3. Electromagnetic Compatibility Handbook by Kenneth Kaiser

The first two are required reading for EMC/EMI engineers (or should be!). The third is a 2600 page book that instructs through examples. I would start with the first two. Additionally you could look at college level texts such as Electromagnetics by Kraus or Applied Electromagnetics by Shen and Kong (if it is still in print.
 
Gosh it's been so long since I studie EM in college.
Difference between H and B is that, one is the Electric field and the other is the magnetic field. They always accompany each other perpendicular to each other.

I am sure someone here will be able to post something more detailed. Until try Google.
 
amt said:
Difference between H and B is that, one is the Electric field and the other is the magnetic field. They always accompany each other perpendicular to each other.
Not so. Both B and H are vectors used in describing magnetism. B is the fundamental magnetic field, sometimes called "magnetic induction" to distinguish it from H; H, often called the "magnetic field strength", is useful in discussing magnetism in the presence of magnetic materials.
 
temujin said:
So if the magnetic force acting on a magnetic needle increases, why does not the field strength increase. And what exactly is the difference between H and B.
The names of the magnetic vectors aren't particulary helpful. The magnetic field (B) increases, but the magnetic field "strength" (just the name attached to H) does not. H only depends on the "free" current (I in the coil).

You may find this helpful: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/solids/magpr.html
 
Yes- I apologize for my mistake. I just referred to some text.
H=B/u, where 'u' is the permiability constant.

The Electric Field should have been 'E'.
 
Doc Al said:
The names of the magnetic vectors aren't particulary helpful. The magnetic field (B) increases, but the magnetic field "strength" (just the name attached to H) does not. H only depends on the "free" current (I in the coil).

You may find this helpful: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/solids/magpr.html


I agree with Doc Al. It took me a little while to get it, but there is a very important difference between B and H. Like Doc Al said, B is the magnetic field that is independent of source. There are two main sources of magnetism. The first comes from the material in the form of para/diamagnetism or ferromagnetism. The second comes from free current passing through the material. To find H, B is separated into the two parts, coming from free current and "bound" current. As Doc Al said, H is the name given to the free current part. H is used often by experimentalists because when they want to control the amount of magnetic field, they cannot easily change the magnetism inherent inside the material they're using. Instead, they change the amount of current passing through the material. So effectively, they are only changing H. Your example, however, is an example of them "changing the material" by filling the air with a piece of iron, changing the system's inherent magnetism.

Hope that helps :smile:
 
Last edited:

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