Orientation preserving and determinants

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving two theorems related to 3x3 matrices, specifically focusing on the relationship between orientation preservation and determinants, as well as the property of determinants under matrix multiplication. The scope includes theoretical proofs and mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that a 3x3 matrix A is orientation preserving if and only if det(A) > 0, providing a chain of logical equivalences to support this claim.
  • Another participant questions how to expand the determinant of the product of two matrices, suggesting that doing so would help prove the second theorem.
  • A third participant proposes a method of directly computing the product of two matrices and their determinants to demonstrate the equality of det(AB) and det(A) * det(B), although acknowledges that the resulting expressions will be complex.
  • Additionally, a participant suggests proving the second theorem for elementary matrices first, then extending the result to invertible matrices, and notes that handling non-invertible cases is simpler due to the relationship between non-invertibility and determinant being zero.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying degrees of confidence in their approaches to proving the theorems, with some proposing different methods and others questioning the feasibility of certain expansions. No consensus is reached on the proofs themselves.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the properties of determinants and matrices, but does not resolve the mathematical steps necessary for the proofs. There is also an implicit dependence on definitions of orientation preservation and the behavior of determinants under multiplication.

JSG31883
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Can someone help me prove two theorems? I know they both are true, but can't come up with proofs.

1) Prove that a 3x3 matrix A is orientation preserving iff det(A)>0.

2) Prove that for A, B (both 3x3 matrices) that det(AB)=detA*detB. (A, B may or may not be invertible).

THANK YOU!
 
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I'm not entirely sure about this one. Let (v w x) be the 3x3 matrix with vectors v, w, and x as columns.

A is orientation preserving

if and only if

det (Av Aw Ax) > 0 iff det (v w x) > 0

if and only if

det (A(v w x)) > 0 iff det (v w x) > 0

if and only if

det(A)det(v w x) > 0 iff det (v w x) > 0 (using number 2. which you need to prove)

if and only if

det(A) > 0

2. I can't think of an easy way to do it, but if you actually expand it out in full, you will be able to show it.
 
for 2) how can I expand it out? You say if I expand it out I will be able to show it...
 
Take two general matrices, for example, take A to be:

(a11 a12 a13)
(a21 a22 a23)
(a31 a32 a33)

and B to be something similar. Actually compute the product AB and then compute it's determinant, and similarly compute the determinants |A| and |B|, then their product. You'll get some big, long, ugly expressions, but you'll be able to cancel them to show that they're equal.
 
Expanding out 2) will be disgusting (but would certainly work). Another way is to first prove it for elementary matrices, then show that any invertible matrix is the product of elementary matrices and you've pretty much handled the invertible case. A or B non-invertible is easier, assuming you know non-invertible<=>determinant is zero (or can prove this).
 

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