What side in real-life do you think is going to win?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of "good" and "evil," exploring their definitions, implications, and relevance in real-life scenarios. Participants engage in philosophical reasoning about morality, the nature of victory, and the historical perspective on truth, with a focus on whether good or evil ultimately prevails.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the definitions of "win" and the conditions under which a decision might be considered settled.
  • Chaos is suggested by some as a prevailing force, while others argue that the average or status quo will ultimately prevail.
  • Several participants assert that concepts of good and evil are human-made and subjective, with no universal agreement on their definitions.
  • One participant posits that evil has historically triumphed due to the advantages it offers, while good is seen as limiting options.
  • There are claims that events, whether perceived as good or evil, are simply occurrences without inherent moral value.
  • Some argue that history is shaped by victors, leading to a perspective that all knowledge is biased and potentially misleading.
  • The idea that societal definitions of good and evil vary greatly, and that what is considered utopian by some may be viewed as evil by others, is discussed.
  • One participant suggests that as time progresses, society may either evolve towards a utopia or face destruction, but no mathematical law governs this outcome.
  • There are reflections on the implications of the phrase "history is written by the victors," with concerns about its potential to promote aggressive behavior.
  • Some assert that good will ultimately prevail because the victors will perceive themselves as good, regardless of the moral implications of their actions.
  • A belief is expressed that evil exists only in the context of free will and actions contrary to a divine will, suggesting a theological perspective on morality.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the existence and nature of good and evil, with no consensus reached. The discussion remains unresolved, with competing perspectives on morality and the implications of historical narratives.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the subjective nature of moral concepts and the influence of perspective on historical narratives. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity surrounding definitions of good and evil, as well as the limitations of understanding these concepts in a universal context.

What side do you think is going to win in real life?

  • good

    Votes: 12 57.1%

  • evil

    Votes: 9 42.9%
  • Total voters
    21
lockecole
Messages
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What side do you think is going to win in real life?

Tell me why too.
 
Last edited:
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What is your definition of "win" and in what situation would you believe the decision to be settled.
 
chaos always wins.
 
haha that's a nice physical way of putting it.

I'll say the average will always win
 
Evil's not really trying to win because that would be something good. ;)
 
Evil and Good don't exist.
 
good and evil do not exist?

explain!
 
Perhaps I'll make poll about the dumbest poll on PF..
 
lockecole said:
good and evil do not exist?

explain!

Its just a way of saying everyone should be able to do whatever they want as long as they can dream up some sort of excuse your not allowed to argue against.
 
  • #10
lockecole said:
good and evil do not exist?

explain!

Things just happen. That's all there is to it. The Holocaust or you having a muffin with your cereal are equal in that they're just events.
 
  • #11
In this world, evil has always won and always will. Being good severely limits your options, while evil people can do whatever they want. They have an unfair advantage. Also, winning itself implies an evil act, as it means taking away from someone or destroying something.

But if there's another world, with different rules, then evil may cease to exist. Only in that case good may be said to have won, simply be remaining alive while the opponent kills itself.
 
  • #12
Things are not really that black and white. . .
 
  • #13
The ball keeps rolling downhill,
Time's Arrow on the move.
The Prince of Chaos gets his share,
And in the end . . . we loose.
 
  • #15
It's AAAALL Good!
 
  • #16
I'm with Smurf on this one. Good and evil are both strictly human-made concepts, and no 2 humans agree exactly upon which is which or where the lines are drawn. The only universal force is indifference.
 
  • #17
Danger said:
The only universal force is indifference.
Gravity's pretty ubiquitous.
 
  • #18
Maybe a better way of putting this would be as time approaches infinity, does society approach a happy utopia or do we whipe ourselves off the face of the earth.

Of course, as far as i know, there's no mathematically based law that defines this relationship.
 
  • #19
goooooo toooo the light..oh wait, wrong movie.. :wink:
 
  • #20
your virtuous good is someone else's evil malcontent

History is always written by the victors.
 
  • #21
Pengwuino said:
Maybe a better way of putting this would be as time approaches infinity, does society approach a happy utopia or do we whipe ourselves off the face of the earth.

Of course, as far as i know, there's no mathematically based law that defines this relationship.
As time approaches infinity, society approaches heat death/Big Crunch :smile: .

I don't think an entire society can ever be completely happy, since there will always be someone who disagrees with the contented majority. And of course, the society will need some way to get rid of these people. But how can a society be Utopian and happy (by our standards) if it's actively neutralizing dissidents? It really is a matter of definition: what seems evil to you is good to others, and what is an evil society to you is Utopia to others. That's how it'll always be.
 
  • #22
Pengwuino said:
Maybe a better way of putting this would be as time approaches infinity, does society approach a happy utopia or do we whipe ourselves off the face of the earth.

Of course, as far as i know, there's no mathematically based law that defines this relationship.
We have to die eventually. Our race won't last forever, the universe might not last forever. Mathematically the only answer is as time approaches infinity our race will be destroyed.
 
  • #23
This is not directed back at Zantra, but is a question for all who use this quote:
Zantra said:
History is always written by the victors.

I see the truth in this, and have no choice but to agree... however I always have difficulties in stomaching the idea that everything we know, learn and teach is a half truth based on the victors perspective.

Basically, this way of thinking is encourages an aggressive approach for all future undertakings. Fairly sickening and worrisome as aggressors are seldom those who use their big muscle. What do you think?
 
  • #24
outsider said:
I see the truth in this, and have no choice but to agree... however I always have difficulties in stomaching the idea that everything we know, learn and teach is a half truth based on the victors perspective.

Basically, this way of thinking is encourages an aggressive approach for all future undertakings. Fairly sickening and worrisome as aggressors are seldom those who use their big muscle. What do you think?
I think you're missing the real truth in that statement.

"History is always written by the victors" is a way of saying, in a historical (military) context, that everything we learn and read is not truth per se, but rather a persons perspective on truth. How accurate that is, or how much you should agree with their perspective (should you know the real 'truth') is debatable.

Not my most articulate moment, but I hope that is somewhat clearer.
 
  • #25
Smurf said:
I think you're missing the real truth in that statement.

"History is always written by the victors" is a way of saying, in a historical (military) context, that everything we learn and read is not truth per se, but rather a persons perspective on truth. How accurate that is, or how much you should agree with their perspective (should you know the real 'truth') is debatable.

Not my most articulate moment, but I hope that is somewhat clearer.

Well, if there is only one real truth to this statement, then perhaps I failed to communicate my full understanding of it...

nonetheless, i do realize what it means, however my point was that this statement is used so much that it ALSO implies that "this is how it is and how it will be" and so the underlying message is that "might is right". To those who are unable to find a higher ground:

"if you got the guns, use them, no one will remember because you will just cover it up."

My point is that this line should be used less, as it can certainly be viewed out of context.

These are just thoughts to add on to thoughts... eloquence is secondary to the intended thought...
 
  • #26
outsider said:
Well, if there is only one real truth to this statement, then perhaps I failed to communicate my full understanding of it...

nonetheless, i do realize what it means, however my point was that this statement is used so much that it ALSO implies that "this is how it is and how it will be" and so the underlying message is that "might is right". To those who are unable to find a higher ground:

"if you got the guns, use them, no one will remember because you will just cover it up."

My point is that this line should be used less, as it can certainly be viewed out of context.

These are just thoughts to add on to thoughts... eloquence is secondary to the intended thought...

The context that I was using was perspective. I'm sure there are those who would choose to use this as a slogan for the "might is right" philosophy, but much as Islam is twisted to fit Jihad, so can these words be turned to fit a purpose. It's not the message, but the messanger that matters. It's up to the invdividual to gleen from the message what he may.
 
  • #27
Good will win, because whoever wins will think they are good. The other guys are dead and their opinions therefore don't count.
 
  • #28
Evil exists only for thinking beings with free will.

When an action is contrary to "God's will", it is evil. If one believes in a supreme being, yet still commits an act that is contrary to "Gods will" they have commited a sin.

Since in eternity there is no time, the creation and extinction of such a person is simultaneous, that person not only doesn't exist anymore, they never existed. Therefore in an eternal reality there is no evil.
 
  • #29
Zantra said:
The context that I was using was perspective. I'm sure there are those who would choose to use this as a slogan for the "might is right" philosophy, but much as Islam is twisted to fit Jihad, so can these words be turned to fit a purpose. It's not the message, but the messanger that matters. It's up to the invdividual to gleen from the message what he may.

You need not justify your intentions as I completely agree on the context that you were using... I did not post to counter your post, but to impose a new question on the slogan. Although true thusfar in our history, can it be that we all survive to share a larger vision that can encompass a greater truth where there is no victor?

Shall there always be a victor? When parties raise arms, there is always conflict and an element of distrust and no one wants to disarm. Shall we discuss this over a coffee instead? How can I make it up to you? o:)
 
  • #30
Skyhunter said:
Evil exists only for thinking beings with free will.

When an action is contrary to "God's will", it is evil. If one believes in a supreme being, yet still commits an act that is contrary to "Gods will" they have commited a sin.

Since in eternity there is no time, the creation and extinction of such a person is simultaneous, that person not only doesn't exist anymore, they never existed. Therefore in an eternal reality there is no evil.

Applause! :approve:
 

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