Derivative with respect to a vector

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of taking derivatives with respect to a vector, specifically in the context of matrix calculus involving symmetric matrices and tensor formalism. Participants explore the implications of these derivatives and question the interpretation of such operations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant poses a problem involving the derivative of a symmetric matrix product with respect to a vector and seeks clarification on the derivative of the form \(\frac{d \vec{x}^TA}{d \vec{x}}\).
  • Another participant inquires about the use of tensor formalism, suggesting that subscripts and superscripts may be relevant to the discussion.
  • A participant asserts that the derivative \(\frac{d \vec{x}^TA}{d \vec{x}}\) should yield \(A\) when \(A\) is not a function of \(\vec{x}\), referencing the isentropic replacement tensor.
  • Further elaboration indicates that if \(A\) is independent of \(\vec{x}\), the derivative can be expressed using tensor notation, leading to a result that is not identical to the original object \(A^a{}_b\).
  • A question is raised regarding the interpretation of a "derivative with respect to a vector [or a tensor]," indicating a need for conceptual clarity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation and results of the derivative with respect to a vector. There is no consensus on the final interpretation or the implications of the derived expressions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the results depend on the assumption that \(A\) is independent of \(\vec{x}\), and there is an exploration of tensor notation that may introduce additional complexity in interpretation.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying advanced calculus, matrix analysis, or tensor calculus, particularly in the context of physics or engineering applications.

songCalculus
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Hi, I have a question about doing derivative with respect to a vector, can someone help please.

Problem:
Suppose A is a (nxn) dimensional symmetric matrix, [tex]\vec{x}[/tex] is a (nx1) column vector.
We know that

[tex]\frac{d A\vec{x}}{d \vec{x}}=A[/tex]

and

[tex]\frac{d \vec{x}^TA\vec{x}}{d \vec{x}}=2A\vec{x}[/tex] ( A is symmetric)

question:

[tex]\frac{d \vec{x}^TA}{d \vec{x}}=?[/tex]

many thanks in advance!
 
Last edited:
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Do you know how to work with tensor formalism? Using subscripts and superscripts.

Daniel.
 
this should be A too. When A is not a function of x then take it out of the derivative and realize that dxi/dxj is simply (d)ij where (d) is the isentropic replacement tensor.
(Sorry I didn't feel like latex today)
 
As dextercioby suggests, [tex]\frac{d \vec{x}^TA}{d \vec{x}}[/tex] can be written as (assuming that A is independent of x)
[tex]\frac{\partial (x_a A^a{}_b)}{\partial x^c}=\frac{\partial (x_a )}{\partial x^c}A^a{}_b+x_a \frac{\partial (A^a{}_b)}{\partial x^c}<br /> =\delta_{ac}A^a{}_b+0<br /> =A_{cb}[/tex]
which is not exactly the object [tex]A^a{}_b[/tex] that we started with.

But, now, what is the interpretation of a "derivative with respect to a vector [or a tensor]"?
 

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