Did Mr. Frist's Stock Sale Involve Insider Trading?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of Senator Bill Frist's stock sale related to HCA and whether it involved insider trading. Participants explore the ethical considerations, potential legal ramifications, and political consequences of Frist's actions, with references to historical context and comparisons to other political figures.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that Frist sold his stock with knowledge of potential legal issues, indicating malice towards the law.
  • Others argue that if Frist were not a senator, he might face severe legal consequences, implying a double standard due to his political status.
  • There are claims that Frist's stock sale was motivated by a desire to eliminate the appearance of conflict of interest, although some question the timing of the sale just before a stock drop.
  • Participants note Frist's familial ties to HCA, raising concerns about conflicts of interest and ethical implications of his legislative actions.
  • Some express skepticism about the integrity of the investigation, suggesting potential cover-ups and drawing parallels to past political scandals.
  • Frist's political future is discussed, with some suggesting that ongoing investigations could hinder his presidential aspirations.
  • There are differing views on whether Frist's actions were a gesture of good faith or indicative of wrongdoing, with some participants emphasizing the importance of the timeline of events.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of opinions, with no clear consensus on whether Frist's actions constitute insider trading or ethical misconduct. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on the implications of his stock sale.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of definitive evidence regarding insider knowledge and the varying interpretations of Frist's motivations and the ethical standards expected of public officials.

faust9
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Tisk-Tisk Honorable Mr. Frist.

This story first started popping up about a week ago(at least that was the first time i saw it).

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/23/hca.subpoena.ap/index.html

My opinion is he did this sale with full knowledge and malice for the law; however, there will not be a note like the Martha Stewart case so Mr. Frist will walk away with only a slightly tarnished image. My 2 cents---what do ya'll think?
 
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I think if he weren't a senator he'd be looking at some serious jail time.

But yeah, he'll probably get a slap on the wrist.
 
"Feds investigating Frist's HCA stock sale
Journal reports probe into whether Senate leader had insider knowledge"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9450770/

It certainly can't help him in his bid for the presidency.
 
His reason for selling the stock has some credibility. It has caused him some problems for quite a while:

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/malpractice/pr/?postId=1874

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/malpractice/pr/?postId=1882

Ethics Committee's April 2004 reply finding no conflict of interest

Frist sells the stock in June 2005 to eliminate even the appearance of a conflict of interest.

That was seen as a positive by the FTCR, but didn't completely satisfy them:

"Sen. Frist sold off his stock to protect his political image, and the rest of the Senate should recognize the implications and do the same," said Carmen Balber, consumer advocate with FTCR. "The motive of every Senator with holdings in a hospital, insurer or pharmaceutical company should conflict them out of a decision affecting those companies’ financial interests."


In July, Congressman James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.) recused himself from voting on legislation that would have limited pharmaceutical companies’ liability for selling dangerous drugs because he holds millions in pharmaceutical industry stock. The Senate must now live up to the Sensenbrenner Standard, said FTCR.


FTCR noted, however, that the Senate Majority Leader should still recuse himself from the medical liability debate because his immediate family maintains significant financial interest in HCA. Frist’s brother, Thomas, is HCA’s largest non-institutional shareholder, with over $200 million in HCA stock, and sits on the company’s board.


Frist has been an advocate for legislation to impose a malpractice damage cap and other changes in the medical liability system that would financially benefit HCA, and the company’s medical malpractice insurer, Health Care Indemnity (HCI), by limiting their responsibility to compensate patients who are victims of medical negligence.
Web Wire
Granted, denying a conflict of interest for two years, then finally relenting right before the stock drops may appear abnormally fortuitous ... :rolleyes:
 
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Following in Lott's footsteps?
If Republicans see Frist and the probes as a drag, he could suffer the same fate as Lott. Frist also is a lame-duck leader who has indicated he won’t seek another term.

Chris Lehane, a Democratic consultant who has managed scandals, said Frist’s political strategy would be to get information out, but that approach is hardly what a lawyer would advise his client.

An insider trading investigation also raises the possibility of civil action by shareholders and a discovery process that “disgorges all kinds of documents,” Lehane said.

“Even information benign in another type of environment — what about this phone message from your brother” — has added significance, Lehane said.

Frist has been mentioned as a potential presidential candidate in 2008 — a prospect that looks less likely with the federal probe and his break with conservatives on embryonic stem-cell research.

“That romance was over before it started,” Wittman said.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9455761/
 
Frist and family involved in fraud with HCA

The HCA stock sale by Frist goes very deep into the companies long history of being involved in fraudulent practices.

One of the practices involved HCA buying and opening hospitals in cities across the nation. They would then undercut the prices of local non profit hospitals until the nonprofit hospitals sold out to HCA. Check out your local Catholic hospital, it is probably run by HCA.

In one instance HCA paid $1.5 billion in fines , yet proclaimed it's innocents.

And the fraud and deception goes much much deeper. When the name Frist is used in the links below it is referring to Tommy Frist, Bills billionaire brother. The entire family owned stock in HCA.

I find it a bit odd that the best links I can find come from another country. Is there a coverup going on here in the U.S.??

http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/dissent/documents/health/col_hca_over_pt2.html#Breaking%20up

http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/bmartin/dissent/documents/health/corporate_overview.html
 
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The year 1994 marked the Republican revolution, when the GOP seized control of Congress after decades of Democratic rule in the House and years in the Senate. The GOP portrayed their rivals as beholden to special interests and corrupt after years of entrenchment.

More than a decade later, Republicans are trying to avoid the perception that they resemble the Democrats they replaced.

“The overall problem the Republican Party has is it is increasingly looking like Tammany Hall,” Wittman said. “An odor of sleaziness is enveloping the Republicans and seeping into the administration.”
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9455761/

Cover-ups? Where to start? Better yet, who started looking into Frist the traitor, Rove?

Edit: Tammany Hall spanned 80 years plus. The GOP hasn't dominated even a decade and look where it's at already.
 
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Uh-Oh, it seems Mr. Frist had a real good idea of his holding in the "blind Trust" set up to manage his money. http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/26/frist.blindtrust.ap/index.html

Now, he knows how much of what he owns, and he has VERY close ties to the board---hmmmm I wonder if he had inside information and if he used it to make his sale.

Could it be another career has ended in Washington?
 
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BobG said:
Granted, denying a conflict of interest for two years, then finally relenting right before the stock drops may appear abnormally fortuitous ... :rolleyes:
Frist is a jackass for a great many reasons, but that course of action is the correct one. Selling the stock while you are under investigation is a red-flag that you think you did something wrong. Selling it after is a gesture of good-faith.
 
  • #10
russ_watters said:
Frist is a jackass for a great many reasons, but that course of action is the correct one. Selling the stock while you are under investigation is a red-flag that you think you did something wrong. Selling it after is a gesture of good-faith.
Don't twist the facts around. The ethics committee concluded that he didn't have a conflict of interest in April 2004. He decided to sell his stock in June 2005, long after the matter was dismissed. If he was selling it as a gesture of good faith, he would've done so in April or May 2004, not a year after the fact.
 
  • #11
A time-line of events for those interested.

http://thinkprogress.org/frist-stock-timeline/
 
  • #12
The Frist investigation seems to be moving forward: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=anM.DHkPQl.M&refer=us

Man alive, the house and senate republican leaders are under investigation---how odd.
 
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  • #13
faust9 said:
The Frist investigation seems to be moving forward: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=anM.DHkPQl.M&refer=us

Man alive, the house and senate republican leaders are under investigation---how odd.
It is odd in view of Republican control...except maybe they have decided to cut their losses now so there are less liabilities to face in 2006?
 
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  • #14
And now the plot thickens: http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/12/friststock.ap/index.html
 
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  • #15
Are we to believe that Frist never talked to his partner/brother?
 
  • #16
edward said:
Are we to believe that Frist never talked to his partner/brother?
Yes (DUH!)

This case stinks more and more.
 
  • #17
Frist: Stock Probe May Affect 2008 Plans
By JAMES BELTRAN, Associated Press Writer

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) - Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist says a federal investigation into his sale of stock in a family-owned hospital chain will affect his decision on whether he will seek the presidency in 2008.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051023/ap_on_go_co/frist2008
 
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  • #18
Astronuc said:
Frist: Stock Probe May Affect 2008 Plans
By JAMES BELTRAN, Associated Press Writer
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051023/ap_on_go_co/frist2008
I hope he doesn't run, I really don't want to watch him mis-diagnose Terri Schaivo over and over as his opponents attack him.
 
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