Completing Knowledge in Mechanics (virial)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the virial in physics, the virial theorem, and its significance in various physical contexts. Participants explore its application in gravitational systems, thermodynamics, and ideal gases, while also addressing mathematical formulations related to the theorem.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants explain that the virial theorem relates the total kinetic energy of a stable system to its total potential energy, using examples from gravitational systems and charged particle systems.
  • One participant presents a mathematical derivation involving the time derivative of a quantity related to kinetic and potential energy, suggesting that the average kinetic energy is half the average potential energy in conservative force fields.
  • Another participant notes that the virial theorem can still apply in the presence of non-conservative forces, provided energy is periodically added to the system.
  • A further elaboration connects the virial theorem to thermodynamics, specifically discussing the average kinetic energy of gas particles and deriving the ideal gas law from the virial theorem.
  • A participant shares a resource by John Baez that may provide additional insights into the virial theorem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various interpretations and applications of the virial theorem, but there is no consensus on all aspects discussed. Some points are clarified while others remain open to further exploration.

Contextual Notes

Some mathematical steps and assumptions regarding the periodicity of motion and the nature of forces involved are not fully resolved, leaving room for further discussion on the implications of these factors.

DaTario
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Hi everybody,

I would like to know: 1)what is the so-called VIRIAL in physics, 2) what is the VIRIAL THEOREM and 3) comments on its importance in physics.
It always sounded too much mysterious to me.

Thank you all,

DaTario
 
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There's nothing particularly mysterious about the concept except the word itself which is derived from the Latin vis or viris (force).

The physics concept simply relates the total kinetic energy of a stable system to the total potential energy. E.g. in a gravitational system such as a galaxy, the total kinetic energy of all the stars is negative one half times the total gravitational potential energy. Similar statements apply to systems of charged particles.
 
let [tex]G = \sum (p_i\prime \cdot r_i[/tex]
 
whoa, sorry about that. I'm trying to learn the LaTex codes.

let [tex]G = \sum (p_i \cdot r_i)[/tex]
then we are interested in [tex]\frac {dG}{dt}[/tex]
perform this derivative and you will see that:
[tex]\frac {dG}{dt} = 2T + \sum F_i \cdot r_i[/tex]
take the time average of this quantity:
[tex]\frac {1}{\tau} \int \frac {dG}{dt} dt = \overline {2T} + \overline{\sum(F_i \cdot r_i)}[/tex]

if the motion is periodic, then the time average of the left side will be zero. If it is not periodic, then we choose tau sufficiently long as to make the time average zero. then it follows that
[tex]\overline T = - \frac{1}{2} \overline{\sum(F_i \cdot r_i)}[/tex]

Now, If we're dealing with conservative forces, [tex]F_i = -\nabla V[/tex] which would be the case in, for instance, gravitation. What the equation means, in that context, is that the average kinetic energy is half the average potential energy.

It is worth noting that even if there are non conservative forces present, say frictive forces proportional to the velocity of the particles, that the virial theorem still holds. There is a caveat, though. You must periodically put energy into the system, otherwise all time averages will go to zero (Goldstein, 86).
 
Last edited:
Dear Ptabor,

I would ask you to make just one rapid revision in your last post, for I am not sure to have correctly filled some blanks.

Thank you,

DaTario
 
to expound a little further on the topic, I'll apply this to thermodynamics (adapted from an argument in Goldstein).
In the case of a gas with N atoms within a container of volume V, the equipartition theorem holds and the average kinetic energy is given by
[tex]\overline T = \frac {3}{2}Nk_b T[/tex] where the T on the right side is the temperature, and the T on the left side is the average kinetic energy of the atoms.
As for the [tex]F_i[/tex], these are the forces not only of constraint (provided by the walls of the container) but also the inter-atom interactions. For our discussion here, we assume that collisions between atoms are rare compared with collisions with the walls (indeed, this is the definition of an ideal gas).
Given this premise, what we are really looking at is a pressure being exerted on the container by the particles. we can then write
[tex]dF_i = -P ndA[/tex] where n is the normal to the surface of the container.
To put it another way: [tex]\frac {1}{2} \sum(F_i \cdot r_i) = - \frac{P}{2} \int {(n \cdot r) dA}[/tex]
Recall that gauss's theorem says [tex]\int {(n \cdot r) dA} = \int {(\nabla \cdot r) dV} = 3V[/tex]
thus we may write: [tex]\frac{3}{2}Nk_bT = \frac{3}{2}PV[/tex]
cancelling the 3/2 factor we have recovered the ideal gas law.
I hope this helps.
Phil
 

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