How Can You Accurately Measure pH and Ka of Acids Using Alternative Methods?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around methods for accurately measuring the pH of acids and determining the equilibrium constant (Ka) of weak acids. Participants explore various experimental approaches, including titration and the use of indicators, while addressing the limitations of these methods.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Experimental/applied
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using electrochemical potentials for measuring pH and proposes titration with an alkali as a second method, noting its limitations for weak acids.
  • Another participant agrees with the titration method but emphasizes that it can work for weak acid/base and strong acid/base titrations, provided the acid's Ka is not too small.
  • For measuring Ka, one participant proposes preparing various concentrations of a weak acid and using methyl orange as an indicator, while acknowledging the indicator's pH range limitations.
  • A later reply suggests finding an appropriate indicator and using titration to determine endpoint data, mentioning that at the half endpoint, pH equals pKa, and hints at deducing additional correlational data.
  • Another participant raises a separate question about measuring the standard electrode potential of silver from a silver nitrate solution, seeking guidance on subsequent steps.
  • A reply indicates that constructing a galvanic cell with silver nitrate and a zero standard EMF component is necessary, but does not specify what that component is.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the effectiveness of the proposed methods for measuring pH and Ka, with no consensus reached on the best approach. The discussion also introduces a separate topic regarding standard electrode potential, which remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the choice of indicators, the assumptions regarding acid dissociation, and the potential inaccuracies in using titration for weak acids. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical or experimental steps involved in measuring Ka or standard electrode potential.

Just some guy
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Hi,

I've got this question where I have to describe two methods of measuring the pH of a substance. I've already got the one using electrochemical potentials, but I'm a bit stumped on the second method.

What I've said is to carry out a titration with an alkali until the solution is neutralised. One can then work out the concentration, and if the acid fully dissociates, it's pH. However this is a bit of a fudge as it doesn't work for anything but strong acids. Is there a better way to do this?

Also, I have a second question where I have to devise an experiment to measure the eqilibrium constant Ka of a weak acid. I've written that a number of solutions of the acid could be made, each with a different concentration (increasing linearly from, say, 0.01moldm^-3 to 1moldm^-3), and then dumping some methyl orange in the substance and seeing at which concentration the colour just changes to orange. This substance should be at a pH of 4, so the concentration of H+ ions can be determined and if the concentration of the original substance is already known (this could be measured from a titration I guess) then Ka can be determined. But again this is a bit of a manky method because methyl orange switches at a range of pH values, not just 4. Does anybody have a better method?

Cheers,
Just some guy.
 
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What I've said is to carry out a titration with an alkali until the solution is neutralised. One can then work out the concentration, and if the acid fully dissociates, it's pH. However this is a bit of a fudge as it doesn't work for anything but strong acids. Is there a better way to do this?
it works for a weak acid/base and strong acid/base titration, you don't want the Ka to be too small though.

One the second issue,you have the right idea, you'll just need to find an appropriate indicator use titration to find the end point data as well as half end point data, at the half end point pH=pKa, you can also deduce the molar mass of the weak acid and work out some additional correlational data (you'll need to research this yourself) to support your conclusion.
 
Thanks for the help:smile:

I have another question though, I have to measure the standard electrode potential of silver from a solution of silver nitrate. If I measure the standard electrode potential of the silver nitrate what do I do next?
 
If I'm understanding you correctly, from what I remember, you'll need to construct a galvanic cell with silver nitrate and a zero standard EMF component (I'll let you figure out what that is).
 

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