Recent content by Dark Wing

I thought asking if consciousness was "physical" or not was very relevant: the whole purpose of setting up materialism in the 1st place was the claim that it was a physical thing, and not a spirit. it was the 1st step away from spirit beings and a decartian kind of flow diagram. so if you want...

hypnagogue: thankyou for your patience, it is really appreciated. ok, now we have an example to work with. You want to know where the qualitative experience if pain can be observed from a 3rd person prespective. so, what is pain? a qualitative experience that seems to be part of...

This problem you are talking about is only involved in one sector of current materialistic ontology. and that side is those who take the top down approach, by presuming that consciousness is this thing that ellicits explaining in the 1st place. This is what i am trying to say. it is not part...

You want to bring this down to correlation? i am trying to argue that there is no correlation, as what you are talking about in trying to correlate these things are one and the same. in reality, the the higher level thing you are trying to correlate down does not actually exsist. one thing does...

Yes there is a reasoned process, ignoring previous metaphysical commitments. It is the reasoned process of the identity theory argument, which I have tried to explain, but obviously cannot, so I will instead refer you to "Is consciousness a Brain Process?" by U.T. Place, and "Sensations and...

Ok, it it obvious that we have crossed lines here again, I am not sure you understand exacly what it is i am saying, unless you are simply claiming that what i am saying cannot be. So i will say that I disagree entirley with the concievability argument. What i am trying to say is that I...

Ok, Ok, let's get to this again. If the argument is that materialism as it stands cannot account for all of the problem of consiousness, agreed. If it did, then there would be nothing left to debate (and what fun would that be?) So what we need to do is look at what we believe consiousness...

Sure. all things coneceted, consiousness is a continuim, and all life is one. why not? take physics as your basis you hardly have anywhere else to go.

well, i was more talking about conditioned responces: being able to change behaviour patterns via conditioning: but if you want to use just basic movement in general, then why not? [b] sure, as long as it can actually change its behaviour as well. maybe this is a more quantum mechanics...

Ok Hypnagogue, I think i have lost you somewhere, i am a little confused, so let's go through this a little slower so I know what you are arguing. -What do you think the current materialistic stance is? you keep saying that you don't believe that by looking at the brain you can deduce...

Hello again Hypnagogue, Sorry it took so long to reply... good. we have a starting point. [/b] Well, it depends. Yes, the materialistic stance is quite shallow, and no doubt it needs to be fleshed out, but the basis for it may still be there. Take a look at Place and Smart's work on identity...

... Redefine consciousness? May I ask exactly what definition of consciousness you have that is constant amongst all that talk of it? As far as I know, every author has their own definition in which they work with...

Flipton: Nice post. well explained. (i have not heard the orange juice analogy before, but its a good way to describe the diffrences). and good work taking on a mediating position there, looks as if it might start working. There is much philosophy to discuss here, and it gets lost in the...

This does not quite sit right with me yet. I have been thinking all night why not. Mayby its that the fuel is not actually a starter in the brain process, (though you might say that an experience or a stimulus is) or that you have an officialkick off point caused by energy or friction at all...

Hypnagogue: Very good, very good, I feel we have come to a point of real discussion now. You understand what I have said; now I must show you why I think it to be so. [/b] Yes. Understood completely. (and very well put, i must say) This is where we diverge. I believe that it is a...