E-M Waves Detail: Proof of Interdependancy of Plane Waves E & B

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the interdependence of electric (\vec{E}) and magnetic (\vec{B}) plane waves as described by Maxwell's equations. Participants explore the conditions under which these waves satisfy the equations, the implications of given solutions, and the relationship between the fields in various contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof from a textbook showing that given an electric plane wave, a corresponding magnetic plane wave can be derived, but questions whether this is the only solution.
  • Another participant suggests that the goal should be to demonstrate that Maxwell's equations imply the form of \vec{B} given \vec{E}, emphasizing the interdependence of the equations.
  • A third participant notes that in the radiation zone, a general relationship between \vec{E} and \vec{B} can be established, but highlights the need for careful consideration of charge conservation and retarded time in calculations.
  • A later reply indicates a shift in perspective, suggesting that the original question may not be necessary, as both \vec{E} and \vec{B} are acceptable solutions under specific criteria related to their magnitudes and orientations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of proving the form of \vec{B} given \vec{E}, with some emphasizing the importance of deriving this relationship from Maxwell's equations while others suggest that the established criteria for plane waves are sufficient. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the necessity of the proof and the implications of the criteria.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention specific conditions that must be satisfied for \vec{E} and \vec{B} to be considered valid solutions, including their relative magnitudes, mutual perpendicularity, and phase alignment. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity involved in deriving these relationships from Maxwell's equations.

quasar987
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Basically, my book (Modern Optics by Robert Guenther) presents the "proof" of the interdependancy of the plane waves E and B as follow:

Suppose [itex]\vec{E}[/itex] is an electric plane wave:

[tex]\vec{E} = \vec{E_0}e^{i(\omega t - \vec{k}\cdot \vec{r}+ \phi)}[/tex].

Then we find that

[tex]\frac{\partial \vec{E}}{\partial t}=i\omega \vec{E}[/tex].

And if [itex]\vec{B}[/itex] is a plane wave in-phase with [itex]\vec{E}[/itex], such as

[tex]\vec{B} = \vec{B_0}e^{i(\omega t - \vec{k}\cdot \vec{r}+ \phi)}[/tex],

then

[tex]\vec{\nabla}\times \vec{B} = -i\vec{k}\times \vec{B}[/tex].

And thus, given [itex]\vec{E}[/itex] a plane wave, [itex]\vec{B}[/itex] a plane in-phase satify the Maxwell equation

[tex]\vec{\nabla}\times \vec{B} = \mu\epsilon \frac{\partial \vec{E}}{\partial t}[/tex]

under the simple condition that [itex]E_0 = cB_0[/itex] but what tells me that given [itex]\vec{E}[/itex] a plane wave, this the only solution? It's this little detail that bugs me.
 
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If I understand your problem correctly. The author has shown the given solution for B satisfied Maxwell's equations. What you'd rather want is to show that, given E, Maxwell's equations imply that B must be of that form correct?
That is indeed the way I'd prefer it too. Since you are given [itex]\vec E(\vec r,t)[/itex], Maxwell tells you that, in vacuum:
[tex]\vec \nabla \cdot E =0[/tex]
[tex]\vec \nabla \cdot \vec B=0[/tex]
[tex]\vec \nabla \times \vec B=\frac{1}{c^2}\frac{\partial \vec E}{\partial t}[/tex]
[tex]\vec \nabla \times \vec E=-\frac{\partial \vec B}{\partial t}[/tex]

Just use these to see how the plane wave looks like. It'll give you a set of interdependent equations. The plane wave satisfies Maxwell's equations only under certain conditions. The first for example (divergence of E vanishes) tells you that k is perpendicular to E. Using the others you can show that B and E are in phase and mutually perpendicular. Give it a shot.

Hint: Not necessary, but for simplicity, choose your axes so that E is point in the x direction and k in the z direction. No loss of generality there after you've shown that k and E are perpendicular.
 
On a related note, one can demonstrate fairly generally that the electric and magnetic fields of a spatially confined system of charges and currents satisfy [tex]\vec{B} = \hat{n}\times \vec{E}[/tex] in the so called "radiation zone" far away from the charges. One way to do so is to use the retarded potentials in the Lorentz gauge and calculate the leading contribution to the fields at large distances (this is the [tex]1/r[/tex] radiation field). After a little playing around, you can find the above relation without too much trouble. You have to use conservation of charge at one point in the calculation, so you do need to be careful with the retarded time in your calculation.
 
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Nevermind, I guess my question doesn't make sense.
E plane and B plane are acceptable solutions of the wave equations provided they meet the criterions

i) |E|/|B| = c/n
ii) E, B and k are mutually perpendicular
iii) E and B are in phase

That's all there is to it
 
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