Improper integral of 1/x from –1 to 1

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the improper integral of 1/x from -1 to 1, exploring its convergence, the implications of symmetry in integration, and the challenges of defining the area under the curve. Participants share perspectives on the mathematical treatment of this integral, including comparisons to conditionally convergent series and the role of partition schemes in determining the integral's value.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Dr. Bob argues that the area under the curve of 1/x from -1 to 1 is exactly 0.0 based on symmetry, despite the integral being considered divergent in introductory calculus texts.
  • Another participant suggests that the value of the integral depends on how one approaches the singularity at x=0, highlighting that the limiting value can vary based on the chosen partition scheme.
  • A third participant points out that the integral does not converge because the limits depend on the order in which the limits are taken, leading to different results such as -∞, +∞, or 0, which is identified as the Cauchy principal value.
  • Some participants note that numerical approximations may yield 0.0 due to the specific partition scheme used in computations, which may not reflect the true nature of the integral.
  • There is a discussion on the importance of partition independence in defining integrals, suggesting that the area should remain consistent regardless of how the region is subdivided.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the convergence of the integral, with some supporting Dr. Bob's symmetry argument while others emphasize the dependence on partition schemes and the nature of improper integrals. No consensus is reached regarding the integral's value or the validity of the symmetry argument.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in the treatment of the integral, including the dependence on partition schemes and the unresolved nature of the mathematical steps leading to different interpretations of convergence.

robert spicuzza
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I am a physicist, not a mathematician.
This problem has bothered me for 40 years.

All introductory Calculus texts would consider this integral divergent.
An example found in many texts is the integral of 1/(x-2) from 0 to 3, which is just a variant to the question I am asking. What I find interesting is the accompanying statement that says if you find the integral equal to -ln|2| you would be making a terrible mistake?.

Now back to my problem of the area under the curve of 1/x from –1 to 1.
Using a symmetry argument I would state to however close to the Y axis you want to come the area is exactly equal to 0.0. Even a bigger computer would yield the same sum, exactly 0.0.

Now I know I’m using the word area under the curve and not integral, but I do have an infinite number of Riemann Sums missing only the last sum at X=0,
Not sure what to do with this last sum? But again I can make a strong argument that last Sum is also 0.0 based on symmetry.

I’ll gladly accept any help on this as I am now teaching math, and I want to cover this in my calculus class.

Dr Bob
 
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It is quite similar to how the value of a conditionally convergent series is dependent upon the manner in which you sum up your terms:

Let \epsilon be a small parameter, and let f(\epsilon),g(\epsilon) be positive functions vanishing as epsilon goes to zero.

Consider the integral:
I(\epsilon)=\int_{-1}^{-f(\epsilon)}\frac{dx}{x}+\int_{g(\epsilon)}^{1}\frac{dx}{x}=\log(|-f(\epsilon)|)-\log(|-1|)+\log(1)-\log(g(\epsilon))=\log(\frac{f(\epsilon)}{g(\epsilon)}

As you can see, the limiting value of I(\epsilon) as epsilon goes to zero is entirely dependent upon how we choose to approach our singularity!

But, in general, we want our integral value to be INDEPENDENT of how we partition our interval of integration.
(And for Riemann integrable functions, independence of a particular partition scheme is a requirement that must be met).

Why should "symmetric" integration be preferred over other ways?

As a contrasting example, consider the improper integral:
\int_{-1}^{1}\frac{dx}{\sqrt{|x|}}
By a similar stratagem, we can set:
I(\epsilon)=\int_{-1}^{-f(\epsilon)}\frac{dx}{\sqrt{-x}}+\int_{g(\epsilon)}^{1}\frac{dx}{\sqrt{x}}=2-2\sqrt{f(\epsilon)}+2-2\sqrt{g(\epsilon)}
This will tend to the value 4 in the limit, no matter what continuous functions f and g are.
 
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Consider that in oder for the integral to converge, we require that

\int_{-1}^{1}\frac{dx}{x} =\lim_{\epsilon_1,\epsilon_2\rightarrow 0^+ }\left( \int_{-1}^{-\epsilon_1} \frac{dx}{x} +\int_{\epsilon_2}^{1} \frac{dx}{x}\right) = \lim_{\epsilon_1,\epsilon_2\rightarrow 0^+ }\left( \ln (\epsilon_1) -\ln (\epsilon_2) \right) = \lim_{\epsilon_1,\epsilon_2\rightarrow 0^+ }\ln \left( \frac{\epsilon_1}{\epsilon_2} \right)

exist independent of the manner in which \epsilon_1,\epsilon_2\rightarrow 0^+. Clearly this is not the case, since, for example, were we to let \epsilon_1\rightarrow 0^+ first, then the value of the limit is -\infty, but if instead we let \epsilon_2\rightarrow 0^+ first, then the value of the limit is +\infty, and if, rather, we put \epsilon_1=\epsilon_2=\epsilon, and then let \epsilon\rightarrow 0^+ then the limit is 0 -- this is the case you have built up in your mind, this particular value of the limit is called the Cauchy principal value (P.V. for short). If you evaluate an integral along the real axis by using contour integrals and residue theorem, the value of the integral thereby obtained is the Cauchy PV.
 
Last edited:
robert spicuzza said:
I am a physicist, not a mathematician.
This problem has bothered me for 40 years.

All introductory Calculus texts would consider this integral divergent.
An example found in many texts is the integral of 1/(x-2) from 0 to 3, which is just a variant to the question I am asking. What I find interesting is the accompanying statement that says if you find the integral equal to -ln|2| you would be making a terrible mistake?.

Now back to my problem of the area under the curve of 1/x from –1 to 1.
Using a symmetry argument I would state to however close to the Y axis you want to come the area is exactly equal to 0.0. Even a bigger computer would yield the same sum, exactly 0.0.

Now I know I’m using the word area under the curve and not integral, but I do have an infinite number of Riemann Sums missing only the last sum at X=0,
Not sure what to do with this last sum? But again I can make a strong argument that last Sum is also 0.0 based on symmetry.

I’ll gladly accept any help on this as I am now teaching math, and I want to cover this in my calculus class.

Dr Bob


The Integral exists only if limit of the Reimann sums exists under *any* partition You are right, you can form a sequence of partitions such that the corresponding Reimann sums are all zero, but you can also partition [-1,1] in such a way that they are not, and in fact, do not converge to a finite value at all. As arildno said, this is very simmilar to conditionally convergent series.
 
As for the computer result, any numerical approximation will use some specific partition scheme.
Although many cases exist where a non-uniform partition would yield a good approximation earlier than a uniform partition scheme, I would think that the default option for any integration routine uses a uniform partition scheme. That would explain why you get 0.0 as the answer on your computer.
 
To cover this example in your class is an excellent idea, in my opinion.
Note that the requirement of partition independence is actually an element of a precise formulation of our intuitive notion concerning areas:
However we choose to subdivide a particular region into simpler pieces, we always want the area of our region to equal the sum of the areas of the simpler pieces, however we choose to add them together.
 

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