View Full Version : Wall on the mexico/united states border
Nothing000
Apr6-06, 06:23 PM
Besides the cost, what is wrong with building a wall on the Mexico/America border? I don't see how this could be morally wrong, or wrong in any other way besides the cost of the thing.
Astronuc
Apr6-06, 06:42 PM
Well if the build it out of stone, with towers and ramparts, and crenelations and merlons (rather than iron and barbed wire), and give it a fancy name like the Great Mexican-American Friendship Wall, then it just might become a tourist attraction. :rolleyes:
Nothing000
Apr6-06, 06:53 PM
That is funny. But do you not have a reason why this would be wrong to do? I seriously can not think of a reason.
Nothing000
Apr6-06, 06:55 PM
It seems correct to me. We have enemies that we don't want to enter our country, so why the heck should we just have open borders?
heartless
Apr6-06, 07:18 PM
Hello,
I think, It's better to leave open borders for whatever reason. South, Central Americans and Mexicans, partially shape U.S's economy. They work really hard for low wages, like slaves. They just work for a better life. Everyone deserves freedom and good life. Life is only one, and why should you spend it all, living in poor countries of tropical South America. U.S is based upon freedom. U.S's government left open borders so they take advantage of it. Good. Haven't you ever taken advantage of something that gets you a better living? Only Native Americans are real citizens of U.S's territory, though stupid government treats them like animals. How'bout you? If you can scarcely earn money for goods, wouldn't you try to move somewhere else, thinking of easier and richer life, or rather stay to the very end, always thinking from where to get some food?
Thanks,
Nothing000
Apr6-06, 07:31 PM
So you are saying that we should have open borders because it gives us people that will work as hard as slaves for cheap prices? Now that seems immoral to me. There are legal ways to enter our country, and I would assume that if an immigrant were to enter our country legally then they would have a much better life here.
Maybe it's just because Bush suggest and anything a high ranking poltican makes has to have a useless and pointless argument.
I don't have a serious moral objection to the issue, but I think that spending a lot of time and money building such a wall would create a bad image of our nation (well, not that its is a good one now). America is supposted to be the land of opportunity, so I don't think walling people out is a good idea. Think about how our country was founded.
Nothing000
Apr6-06, 08:03 PM
I don't really see your point Kb, because there is perfectly legal ways to become an american citizen. The only bad thing about the idea that I can see is how expensive it would be.
So you are saying that we should have open borders because it gives us people that will work as hard as slaves for cheap prices? Now that seems immoral to me. There are legal ways to enter our country, and I would assume that if an immigrant were to enter our country legally then they would have a much better life here.
Alot of them need money right away to eat, and the registration process to become a US citizen takes months
Nothing000
Apr6-06, 08:04 PM
Maybe it's just because Bush suggest and anything a high ranking poltican makes has to have a useless and pointless argument.
Do you have an argument about why a wall should not be built?
Nothing000
Apr6-06, 08:06 PM
Alot of them need money right away to eat, and the registration process to become a US citizen takes months
Yes, but after a while it would even out because we would let more immigrants into the country legally because there would be very few entering illegally.
who needs a wall when you can use landmines? No one will dare cross a landmine field, this I promise.
Nothing000
Apr6-06, 08:29 PM
who needs a wall when you can use landmines? No one will dare cross a landmine field, this I promise.
I know you are joking, but I don't see your point.
Do you have an argument about why a wall should not be built?
No it's just another useless argument started by polticans to use as fuel against each other.
who needs a wall when you can use landmines? No one will dare cross a landmine field, this I promise.
I got a better idea have get B-52's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-52_Stratofortress) and use those instead noone will get illegeal close to crossing the broder with those.
And maybe have some nukes on them too.
I think landmines will suffice scott1, :uhh:
heartless
Apr6-06, 08:45 PM
who needs a wall when you can use landmines? No one will dare cross a landmine field, this I promise.
ROTFL :biggrin:
I meant, let them come in whatever way they desire.
Everyone comes, because like Kb said, US is like a land of opportunity and better life. English is the easiest to learn I think, and one more important thing I learned a few weeks ago. People want things that are hard to get. Other nations don't use visas for travelers and workers, (some of them do though) that's the reason they for example don't travel to Germany, France or any west European country. They think that, since US uses visas it's a cool country, I wanna go there. And at last, not many countries have skyscrapers, that's also nice, and shows power in some ways. I think Mexicans don't try to come legally because maybe visas are hard to get in Mexico? Anyway, US slowly becomes a spanish country, or maybe major cities like NYC, Miami, LA, so on. I don't know, but People are not only rushing to US but also to Great Britain and others, although maybe less. See, everyone wants to live their lives in a good way, I just can't imagine how people in Africa come, suffer all the life, die without even experiencing what the world has to offer. ****ty life out there.
Thanks,
Yes, but after a while it would even out because we would let more immigrants into the country legally because there would be very few entering illegally.
You're missing the point-- they can't register legally...they have to eat and have some place to stay, and they're making no money where they're at, so they cross the border. It costs time and money to register.
Nothing000
Apr6-06, 09:26 PM
You're missing the point-- they can't register legally...they have to eat and have some place to stay, and they're making no money where they're at, so they cross the border. It costs time and money to register.
But if illegal imigrants quite coming over here then we would increase the amount of imigrants that we would let in legally. So I think you are missing the point.
Nothing000
Apr6-06, 09:28 PM
I got a better idea have get B-52's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-52_Stratofortress) and use those instead noone will get illegeal close to crossing the broder with those.
And maybe have some nukes on them too.
I have no idea what the hell you guys are talking about. When did violence come into this? There is a difference in killing people for crossing an imaginary line, and creating a real line that people simply can not cross.
But if illegal imigrants quite coming over here then we would increase the amount of imigrants that we would let in legally. So I think you are missing the point.
they won't 'quite' coming over here. The problem is, is that we are making too big of a deal about it.
Nothing000
Apr6-06, 09:44 PM
they won't 'quite' coming over here. The problem is, is that we are making too big of a deal about it.
I still don't understand why building a wall would be wrong to do.
I have no idea what the hell you guys are talking about. When did violence come into this? There is a difference in killing people for crossing an imaginary line, and creating a real line that people simply can not cross.
It was a joke.:biggrin:
So you are saying that we should have open borders because it gives us people that will work as hard as slaves for cheap prices? Now that seems immoral to me. There are legal ways to enter our country, and I would assume that if an immigrant were to enter our country legally then they would have a much better life here.
Well, they came here illegally on their own accord. So they are, by no means, slaves. They use our hospitals, school systems, and law enforcement and cost of millions of dollars. So do they get low wages, yes. Is it totally unfair, no. They should, get no wage and booted out of the country. So the fact that they get anything other than jail is win win for them.
Nothing000
Apr6-06, 10:11 PM
Well, they came here illegally on their own accord. So they are, by no means, slaves. They use our hospitals, school systems, and law enforcement and cost of millions of dollars. So do they get low wages, yes. Is it totally unfair, no. They should, get no wage and booted out of the country. So the fact that they get anything other than jail is win win for them.
Well, that is a little harsh about just booting them out of the country. But I think we should create a system where they never have to enter the country illegally. And I think that the only way to achieve that (and enforce it) is by stopping abilitity of them entering the country illegally. It is kind of like the way that the government looks at the war on drugs: If you can't stop the demand, try to stop the supply.
I know you guys are going to say that the war on drugs was and is a complete failure. But it is a little different, because I think that building this wall actually would stop the ability of immigrants to enter illegally, whereas you can't really just stop people from producing drugs, because drugs like cocaine and heroin can simply be derived from natural plants that can easilly be grown.
You think a wall is going to stop them. They come illegally in the back of bigrigs. Are you going to stop all bigrigs from crossing the boarder? A wall won't do anything other than waste A LOT of money, period.
Nothing000
Apr6-06, 10:15 PM
That is a very vallid point you make. Does anyone have any statistics on how most illegal imigrants enter the country? Is there any way for the government to actually find out how most of the immigrants enter?
Honestly, just give them a damn work permit and leave them the hell alone. They came to do work, not cause trouble.
heartless
Apr6-06, 10:30 PM
Hello once more,
Well, they came here illegally on their own accord. So they are, by no means, slaves. They use our hospitals, school systems, and law enforcement and cost of millions of dollars. So do they get low wages, yes. Is it totally unfair, no. They should, get no wage and booted out of the country. So the fact that they get anything other than jail is win win for them.
I don't quite agree with you. First of all, ill people wouldn't come, why should school loose so much money, suppose govt gives 600$ per student, and as far as I think, students don't use even half of it a year. Lunch costs a few dollars, so that's probably one of the few things that takes up some money. Else, how do they cost millions of dollars? Alright, let's throw them all out but first, take this thing every one has to say twice a day out of the schools
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands:
one Nation under God, indivisible,
With Liberty and Justice for all. "
Or at least modify the oath, because if US gov is to be selfish and greedy for money, Nation isn't under God anymore. This nation had been risen upon Catholic religion, but people took adventage of freedom it gifted them with. God wouldn't protect scoffers. Anyway it should be modified once US became halfly a pagan nation, mainly thanks to the Bushs - murderers and when the creation stopped being taught in schools.
Thanks,
ps. What's a country? Why countries exist? What are your views of nationalism?
I don't quite agree with you. First of all, ill people wouldn't come, why should school loose so much money, suppose govt gives 600$ per student, and as far as I think, students don't use even half of it a year. Lunch costs a few dollars, so that's probably one of the few things that takes up some money. Else, how do they cost millions of dollars? Alright, let's throw them all out but first, take this thing every one has to say twice a day out of the schools
No, go read about the situation in the boarder states and the millions each year illegals are costing the hard working tax payers.
Alright, let's throw them all out but first, take this thing every one has to say twice a day out of the schools
Let's not, there not legal American citizens, or even legal citizens visiting. They deserve freedom and liberty, yes. My tax money? NO!
Or at least modify the oath, because if US gov is to be selfish and greedy for money, Nation isn't under God anymore. This nation had been risen upon Catholic religion, but people took adventage of freedom it gifted them with. God wouldn't protect scoffers. Anyway it should be modified once US became halfly a pagan nation, mainly thanks to the Bushs - murderers and when the creation stopped being taught in schools.
Selfish and greedy? The US government isint a soup kitchen. What? Don't impose your religion on me. Go read your bible, you've been thinking for yourself far too much tonight. The devil has gotten into you. You and your religious bable are not welcomed here.
just for the record, i read the other day that most illegal immigrants come acorss legally. then their visas or whatever expire and they're supposed to go home... they just don't. then they're classified as illegal immigrants. sooo... a big wall isn't gonna help prevent anyone from coming except the really really desperate ones. we'll still have a big problem and have just wasted loads of money for small gain.
TheStatutoryApe
Apr7-06, 01:41 AM
First off there is the bad image. Regardless of the US excepting more people through legal means building a large wall to keep people out doesn't exactly inspire trust and confidence in people. Intentions become nearly meaningless when dealing with perceptions. And if the US doesn't place a barrier on the northern border aswell, an area where there isn't much worry of illegal entry, then perceptions paint the US as racist aswell. I think that the US likely suffers enough already from the perception of being racist imperialists.
Second, there is the cost. Lets see here... http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/02/26/MNGHIHDUQF1.DTL
Here's an article on a plan that has already passed the House. It proposes a wall that will only cover 700 of the 1,952 miles of border area between the US and Mexico at a price tag of 2.2 billion dollars. So we have an estimate of 2.2 billion for only one third of a complete wall. The figure could easily wind up being twice that. Then there are the difficulties that could and probably would arise which comes to my third point.
Third point is the actual execution of such a plan. Aside from protestors the builders would also have to deal with coyotes, drug runners, and the mafia all of whom have an interest in making sure the wall isn't built. I'm quite sure that there would be sabotage and the builders would possibly even be in danger of attacks.
Curious3141
Apr7-06, 01:50 AM
I'm wondering how this thread became such a successful illegal migrant from P & R.
Well, at least the illegals will have a job when they build the wall. They don't even have to cross the boarder. Who do you think will build it, John Q American? Fat chance.
Well if the build it out of stone, with towers and ramparts, and crenelations and merlons (rather than iron and barbed wire), and give it a fancy name like the Great Mexican-American Friendship Wall, then it just might become a tourist attraction. :rolleyes:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
LOL..
Nothing000
Apr7-06, 04:27 AM
2.2 billion for one third of the wall? That is a lot cheaper than I thought. Even if it is double that, that is not very expensive for the scale of the thing.
Astronuc
Apr7-06, 07:07 AM
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
LOL.. Glad you liked it! :biggrin:
I was thinking that there could be places for murals - like for example with the Berlin wall.
Well, I think the proper solution is economic development in Mexico and Central America, and an end to corruption in the various governments and society in general. And no, that's not likely to happen any time soon, if ever.
How does a society overcome centuries of structural inequities and racism?
Some examples of what the wall looks like, along with some background and issues -
San Diego Fence Provides Lessons in Border Control
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5323928
Would we really walling others out? Or walling ourselfs in?
I think ur goverment can contract the Chinese for this wall.I think they get get it done for a lot cheaper than 2.2 bilion. They been doing it the wall thing for centuries.
I think ur goverment can contract the Chinese for this wall.I think they get get it done for a lot cheaper than 2.2 bilion. They been doing it the wall thing for centuries.
Of course this wall served a different purpose. It was made to keep out hostile invaders and not needy peasants and laborers
Nothing000
Apr9-06, 03:05 PM
Of course this wall served a different purpose. It was made to keep out hostile invaders and not needy peasants and laborers
I see no difference. The wall we would build would also keep hostile invaders (terrorists) out.
Why would a terrorist need a wall to keep them out when they can already get in with student visas in the comfort of an airplane? How many terrorists have come through the mexican boarder?
Nothing000
Apr9-06, 04:35 PM
How many terrorists have come through the mexican boarder?
I don't think that is something that we can know, because we don't know how many terrorists are currently here plotting their next attack.
Nothing000
Apr9-06, 04:36 PM
Why would a terrorist need a wall to keep them out when they can already get in with student visas in the comfort of an airplane?
What if they had a nuclear or radiological weapon? How would they bring that in on the comfort of a plane? And I know that it is likely that they would bring it in through the shipping ports, but I would have to think they would have a better chance of them getting it in through the border.
heartless
Apr9-06, 05:12 PM
What if they had a nuclear or radiological weapon? How would they bring that in on the comfort of a plane? And I know that it is likely that they would bring it in through the shipping ports, but I would have to think they would have a better chance of them getting it in through the border.
Will they carry a nuclear or any heavy weapon, hundreds of kms in order to detonate it in US? :biggrin: Wouldn't that be a little too heavy? I think if they are to attack US (again?) this time they would send some kind of ballistic rocket. But, maybe first we should think, why do they want to do this?
[...]f US gov is to be selfish and greedy for money....
Selfish and greedy? The US government isint a soup kitchen.
Sorry, I put it in the wrong words. I was trying to say that, US loses much more money on Iraq and suddenly they pretend to lose so much by Mexican Immigration.
What? Don't impose your religion on me. Go read your bible, you've been thinking for yourself far too much tonight....
Again sorry I you thought that way, but I didn't want to impose religion on you. I rather meant that US government imposes religion on people but acts against it. I'm not the follower of any religion but want to defend ideas.
I read a few articles in NYTImes on Mexican border and hispanic population and I partially changed my views and ideas on this. There must be something done about this problem, but I think wall is far too much as it is like separation from the rest of the world. Minefield would be cheaper than wall but again over all of these, why US?
Nothing000
Apr11-06, 02:19 AM
I think if they are to attack US (again?) this time they would send some kind of ballistic rocket. But, maybe first we should think, why do they want to do this?
What do you mean by "(again?)"? Are questioning whether they were responsible for the attack on the very city you live in on Sept. 11, 2001?
And I don't think they would be able to hit us with ballistic missiles. Wouldn't NORAD pick them up on radar, and stop them? I think they prefer attacks that are much more discrete. Besides, they would most likely have to talk some middle eastern country into launching them, because I doubt they have that kind of arsenel. And if a country hit us, then it would just be like an "old fashioned attack" in the sense that we would have a clear enemy to fight.
You're missing the point-- they can't register legally...they have to eat and have some place to stay, and they're making no money where they're at, so they cross the border. It costs time and money to register.
Maybe they should all get together and make it so that their country is actually worth something....
TheStatutoryApe
Apr12-06, 10:45 PM
Maybe they should all get together and make it so that their country is actually worth something....
Oh... You mean how all of the people in America got together and threw Bush out of office?:rolleyes:
Sometimes such things are a hell of alot harder than you may think.
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