How Do Particle Physicists Measure the Relativistic Energy of Tardyons?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on methods for measuring the relativistic energy of tardyons, with a focus on techniques used in particle physics laboratories. Participants explore various approaches, including calorimetry and cyclotron measurements, while addressing the distinctions between kinetic and total energy.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that calorimeters are used to measure the energy of particles, but one participant notes that calorimeters primarily measure kinetic energy, not total energy.
  • Another participant proposes that rest energy can be determined through calorimetry in the context of particle-antiparticle annihilation, although they caution that this may not be the most precise method.
  • One participant discusses the evolution of calorimetry, mentioning that modern devices account for known rest masses when measuring energy.
  • A different approach is introduced involving cyclotrons, where the radius of the particle's circular motion and its speed can be used to derive relativistic mass and total inertial energy.
  • There is a contention regarding whether calorimeters measure total energy or just kinetic energy, with one participant emphasizing that rest energy is negligible compared to kinetic energy in many cases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the capabilities of calorimeters, particularly regarding whether they measure total energy or just kinetic energy. The discussion remains unresolved with competing perspectives on the measurement methods.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in measuring total energy versus kinetic energy and the assumptions involved in using calorimeters and cyclotrons. There is also mention of the dependency on the definitions of energy types in the context of particle physics.

bernhard.rothenstein
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how do we measure the relativistic energy of a tardyon?
 
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The laboratory answer is via calorimeters,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorimeter_(particle_physics )
 
Last edited by a moderator:
pervect said:
The laboratory answer is via calorimeters,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorimeter_(particle_physics )
A calorimeter will only measure the kinetic energy of a particle, not the total energy.

Pete
 
Last edited by a moderator:
One can also determine rest energy via calorimetry if one looks at particle /antiparticle annhiliation.

This may not be the most precise way of determining rest energy, though.

Also, I took the question to be more in terms of measuring the energy of a single particle, i.e. the particle physics version of the calorimeter. The original principle was based on measuring the actual heat energy, but they have since then become more sophisticated and complicated. Some of the more sophisticated versions routinely take into account known rest masses, i.e. they identify that a muon was created, and add in the known energy to do that into the particle energy.

Besides the Wiki article,

http://www2.slac.stanford.edu/vvc/glossary.html

talks about this a little

Calorimeter
In particle physics, any device that can measure the energy deposited in it by particles (originally a device that measured heat energy deposited, thus a calorie-meter). More Information: Liquid Argon Calorimeter, How does a Calorimeter Work?, Warm Iron Calorimeter

going into a lot of the details (Visit the above links and click on the sub-links - also see electromagnetic vs hadronic calorimeters).

I hope that this was the answer that was being looked for - i.e. how do particle physicists actually measure the energy of particles.
 
bernhard.rothenstein said:
how do we measure the relativistic energy of a tardyon?
If the particle is charged then use a cyclotron. Assume B (strength of magnetic field) is a given. Measure r = radius of circle particle is moving in. Measure the speed the particle is moving at. Then use the cyclotron relation p = qBr derived here

http://www.geocities.com/physics_world/sr/cyclotron.htm

to get m = p/v = relativistic mass. Multiply by c^2 to get E = total inertial energy.

Pete
 
pervect said:
I hope that this was the answer that was being looked for - i.e. how do particle physicists actually measure the energy of particles.
Actually that only tells you the kinetic energy, not the total energy. Are you saying that a calorimeter measures E, not K? In any case the rest energy is so small compared to the kinetic energy there is little difference between the two.

Pete
 

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