Energy Minimization: Nature's Law?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter pivoxa15
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Energy
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of energy minimization in nature, particularly whether it is a law of nature and its relation to thermodynamics. Participants explore the implications of energy minimization in various contexts, including chemistry and physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the idea that objects tend to minimize their total energy is a law of nature and seeks clarification on its derivation.
  • Another participant suggests that the concept is related to the Second Law of Thermodynamics, particularly in terms of free energy, referencing Gibbs' and Helmholtz free energy.
  • A participant challenges the initial assumption by asking how the concept would be interpreted if the context of chemistry had not been mentioned.
  • There is a discussion about how a liquid interacts with a surface to minimize energy, with one participant proposing that the liquid "samples" the atoms to determine if it can bind, thus lowering its energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the concept of energy minimization is a law of nature and how it relates to established thermodynamic principles. No consensus is reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the definitions of energy and stability, as well as the specific context of thermodynamics in chemistry. The relationship between energy minimization and the Second Law of Thermodynamics remains unresolved.

pivoxa15
Messages
2,250
Reaction score
1
Here is a quote from a chemistry textbook

"In nature, objects tend to change in such a way that their total energy is minimised. The lower their energy, the more stable they are, since they have less capacity to do things."

I assume they are talking about total energy=kinetic + potential energy

My question is, is this a law of nature? If so what is it called?

Or is it derived from a law? If so how? What law is it derived from?

It goes on saying "A liquid dropped to a surface will spread over the surface if by doing so it creates a surface of lower energy."

How does the liquid know it will create a surface of lower energy? Or does it just do its thing (i.e when it reaches a new surface it samples the atoms to see if it can bind with them. If they can than they do and we say before they bind they have a higher total energy than afterwards when they are collapsed on the surface hence they have lowered their energy) and in the end we find what they have done is lower their total energy.
 
Last edited:
Science news on Phys.org
pivoxa15 said:
Here is a quote from a chemistry textbook

"In nature, objects tend to change in such a way that their total energy is minimised. The lower their energy, the more stable they are, since they have less capacity to do things."
Since this was in a chemistry text, it is talking about the Second Law of Thermodynamics, rewritten in terms of a free energy.

[see section titled "Special cases: Gibbs' and Helmholtz free energy"]
 
Gokul43201 said:
Since this was in a chemistry text, it is talking about the Second Law of Thermodynamics, rewritten in terms of a free energy.

[see section titled "Special cases: Gibbs' and Helmholtz free energy"]

Had I not mentioned chemistry in my OP, what would you have said?
 
Probably the same thing - it looks like how a chemistry text would word it.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 35 ·
2
Replies
35
Views
6K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
4K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
4K