Need help with Java [Archive]

MeJennifer

Jun9-07, 11:55 AM

What I want to do is make a Voice chat room with administrative functions embedded in a website. i think the best way is to use Java, but I don't know anything about java.
i can't start from scratch and learn the language, because this is really important and I have less time.
i was hoping if any of you could help me and guide me in making one.
Thanks a lot!
You want to make a fairly complicated application in Java and you have no Java experience. That is obviously not a very good idea.

Do you have experience in other languages and with similar applications?

apples

Jun9-07, 12:35 PM

Well...
nope. That's why I need help. But I don't know what to do.

chroot

Jun9-07, 12:40 PM

What you seem to be asking is: can you guys either write my program for me, or give me several years of programming experience in a few posts on a forum? The answer, of course, is no.

We can answer specific questions you might have, but it's too big a task for us to teach you everything you'd need to know.

- Warren

chroot

Jun9-07, 12:40 PM

Well...
nope. That's why I need help. But I don't know what to do.

You don't have the ability to write this program, then.

- Warren

Thrice

Jun9-07, 12:51 PM

Well you don't necessarily have to write it. Do you have any programming experience whatsoever?

edit: the question's actually meant for apples.

-Job-

Jun10-07, 10:36 AM

You should look to use a third party's chat app because there are many challenges involved with doing a multiuser application.

You need both a client component (in java or flash) and a server component (in java, flash, php, asp, c++, c or anything you want).

Building a server component with Java is a very advanced task because you'll need multithreading, shared memory, socket management, etc. Building the client component with Java is also advanced because you'll need to spend some time learning about the java audio libraries, use sockets and sign the applet.

Building the server with PHP or ASP is simpler because you don't need to explicitely use sockets and multithreading (the web server takes care of that). But, you'll still need to use shared memory and thread synchronization.
The easiest approach is to use Flash at the client and at the server use flash again running under the Flash Media Server or the old Flash Communication server. This is easier to code but alot harder to host because most web hosts don't offer Flash Server hosting and those that do are really expensive. You'll either have to setup your own server or buy a dedicated server which is even more expensive than a flash server web host.

For setting up your own server you need to be familiar with how to setup an iis or apache environment, setup the DNS for your domain, setup the Flash Media server in case you decide to go with Flash, and get a new box. You'll also want a business package from your ISP because you want a static IP, open ports (my ISP blocks port 80 for example) and a fair amount of bandwidth (since you're looking to do a voice chat).

Notice that if you go with Java, C++, C at the server as well then you have the same hosting issues as if you went with the Flash Media Server because most hosts won't enable you to load up a custom built server listening on some port, unless you have a dedicated server.

And FYI, even if you go with a pre-built chat app, unless the company you buy it from also hosts it, you'll also have issues hosting its server component, since it's probably not built with ASP or PHP.

apples

Jun14-07, 12:32 PM

chroot

Jun14-07, 01:20 PM

Hire someone else who knows how to program.

- Warren

-Job-

Jun14-07, 08:11 PM

Really, unless you want to start a career in web development i would recommend going for a pre-built and hosted solution. I've met many advanced web programmers who would not know how to build a voice chat application from the ground up.

ranger

Jun14-07, 08:22 PM

OK, I know it may have seemed idiotic when I asked those questions, because no, I don't have any programming experience. But you can also judge from this how important this is to me.
Thank you - Job -, I've read your post once, but couldn't understand the whole thing. I'll try reading it again...
But even with all those issues, and all that stuff, and considering my situation, what should I do?

Go to the open source community and start the project. An example of such a community would be sourceforge. But this requires for it to be open source and it would of course take a lot of time to develop giving the scope of the task and helping is on a voluntary basis.
If you don't want to build it from the ground up, mayb they can point you to existing open source projects that you can use.
But given your lack of experience, you may find it hard to get the project started because these open source projects usually need a very strong initiative .

apples

Jun16-07, 03:01 AM

Thanks a lot.

I searched for open source communities. But I don't understand how to get started. Do i visit the forums or something and start a topic like this?

apples

Jun16-07, 03:42 AM

I just registered for creating a project at sourceforge. The registration was really complicated and confusing.
This is what I did

-----------
# License :: OSI-Approved Open Source :: MIT License
# Intended Audience :: Other Audience
# Development Status :: 1 - Planning
# Topic :: Communications :: Chat
# Programming Language :: ASP
# Programming Language :: C
# Programming Language :: C++
# Programming Language :: Java
# Programming Language :: JavaScript
# Programming Language :: PHP
# Operating System :: Grouping and Descriptive Categories :: All 32-bit MS Windows (95/98/NT/2000/XP)
# User Interface :: Graphical :: Carbon (Mac OS X)
# User Interface :: Graphical :: Handheld/Mobile/PDA
# User Interface :: Graphical :: Win32 (MS Windows)
# Translations :: English
# Database Environment :: File-based DBMS :: Microsoft Access
-----------
Is this fine?

ranger

Jun17-07, 11:33 AM

Once it suites your requirements, you should be good. Pay attention to licensing though. Whats the link to your project?

apples

Jun17-07, 01:10 PM

I registered without reading any license. They were too long. I read the MIT license and chose it...
I don't know what I did. Can I go to jail if something goes wrong because of this?

My project hasn't been approved yet, so there is no link.

apples

Jun17-07, 01:16 PM

Wait a minute, didn't I post this in the wrong section. this should have been in the Programming section.

ranger

Jun17-07, 02:31 PM

You should have read the details of the MIT License (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIT_License) first before you did anything. Personally I would have gone with GNU GPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_General_Public_License) or GNU LGPL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Lesser_General_Public_License). Please read the details of all of these licenses. I can't pick them for you.

apples

Jun17-07, 11:21 PM

it hadn't been approved yet, so i change it do GNU General Public Liscence.
it's been a few days. When are they going to approve it?

MeJennifer

Jun17-07, 11:24 PM

Apples, I hope you did not get the false expectation that somehow, somebody, out of the blue, is going to write you this application.

Unless this question is deemed personal, may I ask the reason why you need this application urgently?

apples

Jun18-07, 12:05 AM

The answer is a bit personal so it may not seem really clear.
But I need to get this done for some personal reason, and it's urgent because I'm going out of town soon.

EDIT: are you saying I won't get any help in the open source community as well?

chroot

Jun18-07, 01:26 AM

Even if you could find enough people to help you write this for free, it's going to take months to write it. You need to give up, and try to use an existing solution. What's wrong with skype?

- Warren

ranger

Jun18-07, 06:03 AM

...

EDIT: are you saying I won't get any help in the open source community as well?

As I indicated in post #11:
1) Must be open source
2) The development time would be long given the scope of your task and helping is on a voluntary basis.
3) Your lack of experience will work against because these projects won't start out of the blue.

it hadn't been approved yet, so i change it do GNU General Public Liscence.
it's been a few days. When are they going to approve it?
That I can't answer. Maybe you can find the average time in their help or FAQ section.

btw, can't you use an existing open source project on sourceforge and work with that?

apples

Jun18-07, 11:24 AM

They're thousands of them. It'll be really hard to find the exact same thing or even something close to them. Most of their existing chat things are add ons for existing IM softwares.

apples

Jun18-07, 11:26 AM

I think,
I explained my need the hard way.
In short I need something really close to Paltalk, which I can embed in my website.

apples

Jun25-07, 03:46 AM

ok, my project has been approved by sourceforge. here's the link

http://sourceforge.net/projects/vmodchat

I hired a person to make the program. When the deal was almost complete he said he will have to go out of town, and so he can't make the program.

ranger

Jun25-07, 06:09 AM

apples

Jun25-07, 08:31 AM

OK, i did post a blue print.

BoredNL

Jun26-07, 12:16 PM

Why does it have to be through a webpage instead of something like teamspeak or ventrillo? There might even be a web application to connect to one of these servers out there already.

Why do you so desperately need to build this from the ground up and have it completely customized?

MeJennifer

Jun26-07, 12:37 PM

You should at least post in your forums and talk about your ideas. I was looking through your project, but couldnt find a blueprint for the project. Just make some initiatives to get the project kicking.
Ranger, since it was you who suggested this in the first place, don't you worry that Apples now has the false impression that this application is going to written for him, just like that?

Sourceforge was not designed a "you ask we deliver" kind of thing. The people who start a project typically are the main contributors or organizers.

I fear this is going to end as a big disappointment for Apples.

OK, i did post a blue print.
Where is that blueprint Apples?

ranger

Jun26-07, 12:46 PM

MeJennifer,

I indicated in post #11 and #22 what he should do and the possible outcomes. He will have to give some initiative to his project. I wasn't under the impression that I was implying it would be done for him just like that.

Maxwell

Jun26-07, 12:50 PM

I find it very hard to believe that you can't use something that is already out there, apples. Nothing like this can truly be that urgent unless it's an assignment or you told someone you would deliver this application.

Look into alternative existing solutions.

MeJennifer

Jun26-07, 01:01 PM

This thread is becomming a bit like http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=140284 where Apples needed "an amusement park ride on a much smaller scale" and also like here, urgently.

apples

Jun26-07, 09:19 PM

That ride was a school project, it had a due date so it was urgent. This, as I mentioned before is urgent because I'm going out of town, and i want to complete this before I go, otherwise I'll have to do it when I come back and I'll get busy in other things. Maybe, my way of expressing my urgency is similar.

I guess I just wasted my time with sourceforge.

And it's not that I need it completely customized, I just need all those functions I mentioned. If there's an existing application like this, or something which you can upload on a website then that's great! Please guide me.

The person i hired ran away. This is turning out to be really difficult and disappointing.

:(

ranger

Jun26-07, 09:29 PM

I forgot exactly what you were looking for because of the confusion this thread caused. List your requirements in a coherent manner and mayb someone will suggest an application. I also believe that a few were mentioned throughout the course of this thread; reread it.

-Job-

Jun27-07, 08:35 AM

There are free IRC web based, java-driven chat clients that you can place in your site.
Here's one: http://www.pjirc.com/about.php

A text-only chat is a simple project to do from the ground up, but voice chat isn't.

chroot

Jun27-07, 01:44 PM

The person i hired ran away. This is turning out to be really difficult and disappointing.(

Is it really any wonder? Why would anyone want to work, without pay, for someone who doesn't even know what he/she is doing?

If someone came up to you and said, "Hey, could you build me a house, you know, for free? 'cause I don't know how to build houses or anything, but I really need one very badly right now," how would you respond?

If you really want this thing written, you either need to go to school and learn how to program, or you need to shell out some tens of thousands of dollars to pay someone else who knows how to program. Either way, it's going to take longer than a month or two to get it written. The bottom line is that your goals are completely unrealistic, and you need to revise them.

- Warren

apples

Jun28-07, 12:20 PM

Of course, we agreed on a deal. What else does hiring mean?

ranger

Jun28-07, 06:53 PM

Of course, we agreed on a deal. What else does hiring mean?

You're misinterpreting Warren's response.

apples

Jun29-07, 11:35 AM

Is it really any wonder? Why would anyone want to work, without pay, for someone who doesn't even know what he/she is doing?

If someone came up to you and said, "Hey, could you build me a house, you know, for free? 'cause I don't know how to build houses or anything, but I really need one very badly right now," how would you respond?

If you really want this thing written, you either need to go to school and learn how to program, or you need to shell out some tens of thousands of dollars to pay someone else who knows how to program. Either way, it's going to take longer than a month or two to get it written. The bottom line is that your goals are completely unrealistic, and you need to revise them.

- Warren

Ranger, I'm not misinterpreting him.
What else is he saying? He thinks I want someone to build the program for free. He thinks I hired someone for free. Whereas we had agreed on a pay.
Plus what else has he done in this thread other than discourage and mock in every post of his in this thread. How helpful was it for me to accomplish my goal? How helpful was his posts to accomplish anything, except accomplishing to piss me off.
Some people lead depressed life dejected by everyone, they in turn express a similar attitude.
The topic was that I needed help and guidance, not that I wanted people to show attitude.

chroot

Jun29-07, 02:20 PM

Sorry apples,

I work in engineering, and part of my job (literally) is to identify unrealistic goals, like yours, and fix them. I certainly don't live a depressed life, dejected (sic) by everyone. :rofl:

- Warren

BoredNL

Jun29-07, 07:47 PM

Apples, the reason why you've gotten flack here is because your post was extremely naive and most forum goers become jaded about that sort of post after a while.

This is something you could google yourself to find an existing application. If after googling you are unable to find one, then ask. But don't expect everyone to research this like crazy for you. If someone pointing you in the right direction doesn't work because you "can't do it," then that kind of annoys the person trying to help you.

Also, you should mention why you need this so urgently. You say that this is so urgent, and yet you say you will be too busy for this when you get back from your trip. If it's really so important, then why will you be too busy for this? This is a top priority right? You shouldn't rush those trying to help you if you aren't willing to even do your own googling for existing applications. It's rude. It's also rude to say you "need help with java" when you don't know anything about programming. When someone reads your message and is going to offer you advice, they would rather you not ask for "help with java" when you don't even know the language.

I do hope you find a solution though. A good place to start would be: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=webpage+voice+chat+application&btnG=Google+Search

The first link returned from that search has a service that is exactly what you are looking for.

apples

Jun30-07, 12:25 PM

whitay

Jul1-07, 09:19 AM

Ach so.

I don't fully understand why someone would run away from a job they are getting paid for? Why did the person who you made an agreement with run away?

Why do you need this so urgently before you leave town?

And I think by the terms of blue print, people need to know some foregrounding as to what platform this application is going to be developed under.

Operating System : All 32-bit MS Windows (95/98/NT/2000/XP) That is fine. But then we find: User Interface : Carbon (Mac OS X), Handheld/Mobile/PDA, Win32 (MS Windows)

Now Im confused by that.

Programming Language : ASP, C, C++, Java, JavaScript, PHP

That's even more confusing. Thats complicated, C, C++, Java mixed in one application. Why two server-side languages and 1 client-client?

You have high expections that will never be met by anyone but yourself. And you seem to take offence to the bluntness and honestly of others, when none is ment.

But if you are desperate and have the money. There is this site, rentacoder.com

or

if you are keen to learn, I found this on java.sun.com

http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4/pdf/programmer_guide.pdf

apples

Jul1-07, 11:22 AM

It's urgent because i'm going out of town. Now since it seems unlikely to be complete it won't be urgent once I'm back my mid-Aug.
The person ran away because he said he needs to go out of town as well.
That seems really funny, but that is what people would do once it gets 50 degrees Celsius.

I'm not offended; I appreciate people helping me.

Thank you.

BoredNL

Jul3-07, 02:16 AM

Apples, saying that you are "going out of town" doesn't explain why this is so important. It only explains that you have a limited time-frame. Imagine if I were to exclaim, "I need a shotgun right now!" To which, someone asked me, "Why is it important for you to have a shotgun right this instant?" I reply, "Because I don't have much time!" I'm sure nobody would be scrambling to get me a shotgun. If I were to say, "Because a monster is coming and it is going to kill us both if we don't defend ourselves!!" I might get the shotgun a little faster. Do you see why? If not, then that is very disappointing.

What is this webpage voice chat for? Why is it so important that you implement this before your trip?

apples

Jul3-07, 08:39 AM

Read what I wrote.
if you want me to repeat it. I said that it won't be urgent anymore once I come back. because then I'll have ample time.
Why is it important is of no concern. It's entirely personal.

BoredNL

Jul3-07, 08:34 PM

Why it is important is of concern though.

But, if it was personal, why didn't you just say so?

Did you look at the website that I referred you to that offers voice chat through webpages?

apples

Jul4-07, 07:47 AM

yes i did. It doesn't have voice but it is good. But the problem is i don't want the user to be able to see/visit/create other rooms. i just want a single room.
that's the thing.

-Job-

Jul4-07, 10:54 AM

That makes things easier. Why don't you start with a text chat first which is simple enough to put together? You'll need a web host (a cheap one is fine) a server side language like PHP and a database solution. Most web hosts, even the cheap ones, give you at least one SQL/MySQL database.

You put together a PHP script that interacts with the database. The PHP script will have methods for posting a new message to the chat screen and for obtaining newly posted messages.

Finally you put together a simple HTML page containing some javascript which uses Ajax to call the PHP script to write/read chat messages. In a couple of hours you can have a working text chat.